Start reading Oathbringer, the new volume of Brandon Sanderson’s Stormlight Archive epic, right now. For free!
Tor.com is serializing the much-awaited third volume in the Stormlight Archive series every Tuesday until the novel’s November 14, 2017 release date.
Every installment is collected here in the Oathbringer index.
Need a refresher on the Stormlight Archive before beginning Oathbringer? Here’s a summary of what happened in Book 1: The Way of Kings and Book 2: Words of Radiance.
Spoiler warning: Comments will contain spoilers for previous Stormlight books, other works that take place in Sanderson’s cosmere (Elantris, Mistborn, Warbreaker, etc.), and the available chapters of Oathbringer, along with speculation regarding the chapters yet to come.
Chapter 16
Wrapped Three Times
For in this comes the lesson.
—From Oathbringer, preface
A legend rested on the stone slab before Dalinar. A weapon pulled from the ancient mists of time, and said to have been forged during the shadowdays by the hand of God himself. The Blade of the Assassin in White, claimed by Kaladin Stormblessed during their clash above the storm.
Upon cursory inspection, it was indistinguishable from an ordinary Shardblade. Elegant, relatively small—in that it was barely five feet long— it was thin and curved like a tusk. It had patterns only at the base of the blade near the hilt.
He’d lit it with four diamond broams, placed at the corners of the altar-like stone slab. This small room had no strata or paintings on the walls, so the Stormlight lit only him and that alien Blade. It did have one oddity.
There was no gemstone.
Gemstones were what allowed men to bond to Shardblades. Often affixed at the pommel, though occasionally at the spot where hilt met blade, the gem would flash when you first touched it, initiating the process. Keep the Blade with you for a week, and the Blade became yours—dismissible and returnable in time with your heartbeat.
This Blade didn’t have one. Dalinar hesitantly reached out and rested his fingers on its silvery length. It was warm to the touch, like something alive.
“It doesn’t scream when I touch it,” he noted.
The knights, the Stormfather said in his head, broke their oaths. They abandoned everything they’d sworn, and in so doing killed their spren. Other Blades are the corpses of those spren, which is why they scream at your touch. This weapon, instead, was made directly from Honor’s soul, then given to the Heralds. It is also the mark of an oath, but a different type—and does not have the mind to scream on its own.
“And Shardplate?” Dalinar asked.
Related, but different, the Stormfather rumbled. You haven’t spoken the oaths required to know more.
“You cannot break oaths,” Dalinar said, fingers still resting on the Honorblade. “Right?”
I cannot.
“What of the thing we fight? Odium, the origin of the Voidbringers and their spren. Can he break oaths?”
No, the Stormfather said. He is far greater than I, but the power of ancient Adonalsium permeates him. And controls him. Odium is a force like pressure, gravitation, or the movement of time. These things cannot break their own rules. Nor can he.
Dalinar tapped the Honorblade. A fragment of Honor’s own soul, crystalized into metallic form. In a way, the death of their god gave him hope—for if Honor had fallen, surely Odium could as well.
In visions, Honor had left Dalinar with a task. Vex Odium, convince him that he can lose, and appoint a champion. He will take that chance instead of risking defeat again, as he has suffered so often. This is the best advice I can give you.
“I’ve seen that the enemy is preparing a champion,” Dalinar said. “A dark creature with red eyes and nine shadows. Will Honor’s suggestion work? Can I make Odium agree to a decisive contest between me and that champion?”
Of course Honor’s suggestion would work, the Stormfather said. He spoke it.
“I mean,” Dalinar said, “why would it work? Why would this Odium ever agree to a contest of champions? It seems too momentous a matter to risk on something so small and inferior as the prowess and will of men.”
Your enemy is not a man like you, the Stormfather replied, voice rumbling, thoughtful. Even… frightened. He does not age. He feels. He is angry. But this does not change, and his rage does not cool. Epochs can pass, and he will remain the same.
To fight directly might coax out forces that could hurt him, as he has been hurt before. Those scars do not heal. To pick a champion, then lose, will only cost him time. He has that in plenitude. He still will not agree easily, but it is possible he will agree. If presented with the option in the right moment, the right way. Then he will be bound.
“And we win…”
Time, the Stormfather said. Which, though dross to him, is the most valuable thing a man can have.
Dalinar slipped the Honorblade off the slab. At the side of the room, a shaft cut into the ground. Two feet wide, it was one of many strange holes, corridors, and hidden corners they’d found in the tower city. This one was probably part of a sewage system; judging by the rust on the edges of the hole, there had once been a metal pipe here connecting the stone hole in the floor to one in the ceiling.
One of Navani’s primary concerns was figuring out how all this worked. For now, they’d gotten by using wooden frames to turn certain large, communal rooms with ancient baths into privies. Once they had more Stormlight, their Soulcasters could deal with the waste, as they’d done in the warcamps.
Navani found the system inelegant. Communal privies with sometimes long lines made for an inefficient city, and she claimed that these tubes indicated a widespread piping and sanitation system. It was exactly the sort of large-scale civic project that engaged her—he’d never known anyone to get as excited by sewage as Navani Kholin.
For now, this tube was empty. Dalinar knelt and lowered the sword into the hole, sliding it into a stone sheath he’d cut in the side. The upper lip of the hole shielded the protruding hilt from sight; you’d have to reach down and feel in the hole to find the Honorblade.
He stood up, then gathered his spheres and made his way out. He hated leaving it there, but he could think of nothing safer. His rooms didn’t feel secure enough yet—he had no vault, and a crowd of guards would only draw attention. Beyond Kaladin, Navani, and the Stormfather himself, nobody even knew that Dalinar had this. If he masked his movements, there was virtually no chance of the Blade being discovered in this vacant portion of the tower.
What will you do with it? the Stormfather asked as Dalinar entered the empty corridors. It is a weapon beyond parallel. The gift of a god. With it, you would be a Windrunner unoathed. And more. More that men do not understand, and cannot. Like a Herald, nearly.
“All the more reason,” Dalinar said, “to think very carefully before using it. Though I wouldn’t mind if you kept an eye on it for me.”
The Stormfather actually laughed. You think I can see all things?
“I kind of assumed… The map we made…”
I see what is left out in the storms, and that darkly. I am no god, Dalinar Kholin. No more than your shadow on the wall is you.
Dalinar reached the steps downward, then wound around and around, holding a broam for light. If Captain Kaladin didn’t return soon, the Honorblade would provide another means of Windrunning—a way to get to Thaylen City or Azir at speed. Or to get Elhokar’s team to Kholinar. The Stormfather had also confirmed it could work Oathgates, which might prove handy.
Dalinar reached more inhabited sections of the tower, which bustled with movement. A chef’s assistants hauling supplies from the storage dump right inside the tower gates, a couple of men painting lines on the floor to guide, families of soldiers in a particularly wide hallway, sitting on boxes along the wall and watching children roll wooden spheres down a slope into a room that had probably been another bath.
Life. Such an odd place to make a home, yet they’d transformed the barren Shattered Plains into one. This tower wouldn’t be so diff rent, assuming they could keep farming operations going on the Shattered Plains. And assuming they had enough Stormlight to keep those Oathgates working.
He was the odd man out, holding a sphere. Guards patrolled with lanterns. The cooks worked by lamp oil, but their stores were starting to run low. The women watching children and darning socks used only the light of a few windows along the wall here.
Dalinar passed near his rooms. Today’s guards, spearmen from Bridge Thirteen, waited outside. He waved for them to follow him.
“Is all well, Brightlord?” one asked, catching up quickly. He spoke with a slow drawl—a Koron accent, from near the Sunmaker Mountains in central Alethkar.
“Fine,” Dalinar said tersely, trying to determine the time. How long had he spent speaking with the Stormfather?
“Good, good,” the guard said, spear held lightly to his shoulder. “Wouldn’t want anything ta have happened ta you. While you were out. Alone. In the corridors. When you said nobody should be going about alone.”
Dalinar eyed the man. Clean-shaven, he was a little pale for an Alethi and had dark brown hair. Dalinar vaguely thought the man had shown up among his guards several times during the last week or so. He liked to roll a sphere across his knuckles in what Dalinar found to be a distracting way.
“Your name?” Dalinar asked as they walked.
“Rial,” the man said. “Bridge Thirteen.” The soldier raised a hand and gave a precise salute, so careful it could have been given by one of Dalinar’s finest officers, except he maintained the same lazy expression.
“Well, Sergeant Rial, I was not alone,” Dalinar said. “Where did you get this habit of questioning officers?”
“It isn’t a habit if you only do it once, Brightlord.”
“And you’ve only ever done it once?”
“Ta you?”
“To anyone.”
“Well,” Rial said, “those don’t count, Brightlord. I’m a new man. Reborn in the bridge crews.”
Lovely. “Well, Rial, do you know what time it is? I have trouble telling in these storming corridors.”
“You could use the clock device Brightness Navani sent you, sir,” Rial said. “I think that’s what they’re for, you know.”
Dalinar affixed him with another glare.
“Wasn’t questioning you, sir,” Rial said. “It wasn’t a question, see.…”
Dalinar finally turned and stalked back down the corridor to his rooms. Where was that package Navani had given him? He found it on an end table, and from inside it removed a leather bracer somewhat like what an archer would wear. It had two clock faces set into the top. One showed the time with three hands—even seconds, as if that mattered. The other was a stormclock, which could be set to wind down to the next projected highstorm.
How did they get it all so small? he wondered, shaking the device. Set into the leather, it also had a painrial—a gemstone fabrial that would take pain from him if he pressed his hand on it. Navani had been working on various forms of pain-related fabrials for use by surgeons, and had mentioned using him as a test subject.
He strapped the device to his forearm, right above the wrist. It felt conspicuous there, wrapping around the outside of his uniform sleeve, but it had been a gift. In any case, he had an hour until his next scheduled meeting. Time to work out some of his restless energy. He collected his two guards, then made his way down a level to one of the larger chambers near where he housed his soldiers.
The room had black and grey strata on the walls, and was filled with men training. They all wore Kholin blue, even if just an armband. For now both lighteyes and dark practiced in the same chamber, sparring in rings with padded cloth mats.
As always, the sounds and smells of sparring warmed Dalinar. Sweeter than the scent of flatbread baking was that of oiled leather. More welcoming than the sound of flutes was that of practice swords rapping against one another. Wherever he was, and whatever station he obtained, a place like this would always be home.
He found the swordmasters assembled at the back wall, seated on cushions and supervising their students. Save for one notable exception, they all had squared beards, shaved heads, and simple, open-fronted robes that tied at the waist. Dalinar owned ardents who were experts in all manner of specialties, and per tradition any man or woman could come to them and be apprenticed in a new skill or trade. The swordmasters, however, were his pride.
Five of the six men rose and bowed to him. Dalinar turned to survey the room again. The smell of sweat, the clang of weapons. They were the signs of preparation. The world might be in chaos, but Alethkar prepared.
Not Alethkar, he thought. Urithiru. My kingdom. Storms, it was going to be diffi ult to accustom himself to that. He would always be Alethi, but once Elhokar’s proclamation came out, Alethkar would no longer be his. He still hadn’t figured out how to present that fact to his armies. He wanted to give Navani and her scribes time to work out the exact legalities.
“You’ve done well here,” Dalinar said to Kelerand, one of the swordmasters. “Ask Ivis if she’d look at expanding the training quarters into adjacent chambers. I want you to keep the troops busy. I’m worried about them getting restless and starting more fights.”
“It will be done, Brightlord,” Kelerand said, bowing.
“I’d like a spar myself,” Dalinar said.
“I shall find someone suitable, Brightlord.”
“What about you, Kelerand?” Dalinar said. The swordmaster bested Dalinar two out of three times, and though Dalinar had given up delusions of someday becoming the better swordsman—he was a soldier, not a duelist—he liked the challenge.
“I will,” Kelerand said stiffly, “of course do as my highprince commands, though if given a choice, I shall pass. With all due respect, I don’t feel that I would make a suitable match for you today.”
Dalinar glanced toward the other standing swordmasters, who lowered their eyes. Swordmaster ardents weren’t generally like their more religious counterparts. They could be formal at times, but you could laugh with them. Usually.
They were still ardents though.
“Very well,” Dalinar said. “Find me someone to fight.”
Though he’d intended it only as a dismissal of Kelerand, the other four joined him, leaving Dalinar. He sighed, leaning back against the wall, and glanced to the side. One man still lounged on his cushion. He wore a scruffy beard and clothing that seemed an afterthought—not dirty, but ragged, belted with rope.
“Not offended by my presence, Zahel?” Dalinar asked.
“I’m offended by everyone’s presence. You’re no more revolting than the rest, Mister Highprince.”
Dalinar settled down on a stool to wait.
“You didn’t expect this?” Zahel said, sounding amused.
“No. I thought… well, they’re fighting ardents. Swordsmen. Soldiers, at heart.”
“You’re dangerously close to threatening them with a decision, Brightlord: choose between God and their highprince. The fact that they like you doesn’t make the decision easier, but more difficult.”
“Their discomfort will pass,” Dalinar said. “My marriage, though it seems dramatic now, will eventually be a mere trivial note in history.”
“Perhaps.”
“You disagree?”
“Every moment in our lives seems trivial,” Zahel said. “Most are forgotten while some, equally humble, become the points upon which history pivots. Like white on black.”
“White… on black?” Dalinar asked.
“Figure of speech. I don’t really care what you did, Highprince. Lighteyed self-indulgence or serious sacrilege, either way it doesn’t aff ct me. But there are those who are asking how far you’re going to end up straying.”
Dalinar grunted. Honestly, had he expected Zahel of all people to be helpful? He stood up and began to pace, annoyed at his own nervous energy. Before the ardents could return with someone for him to duel, he stalked back into the middle of the room, looking for soldiers he recognized. Men who wouldn’t feel inhibited sparring with a highprince.
He eventually located one of General Khal’s sons. Not the Shardbearer, Captain Halam Khal, but the next oldest son—a beefy man with a head that had always seemed a little too small for his body. He was stretching after some wrestling matches.
“Aratin,” Dalinar said. “You ever sparred with a highprince?”
The younger man turned, then immediately snapped to attention. “Sir?”
“No need for formality. I’m just looking for a match.”
“I’m not equipped for a proper duel, Brightlord,” he said. “Give me some time.”
“No need,” Dalinar said. “I’m fine for a wrestling match. It’s been too long.”
Some men would rather not spar with a man as important as Dalinar, for fear of hurting him. Khal had trained his sons better than that. The young man grinned, displaying a prominent gap in his teeth. “Fine with me, Brightlord. But I’ll have you know, I’ve not lost a match in months.”
“Good,” Dalinar said. “I need a challenge.”
The swordmasters finally returned as Dalinar, stripped to the waist, was pulling on a pair of sparring leggings over his undershorts. The tight leggings came down only to his knees. He nodded to the swordmasters— ignoring the gentlemanly lighteyes they’d sought out for him to spar—and stepped into the wrestling ring with Aratin Khal.
His guards gave the swordmasters a kind of apologetic shrug, then Rial counted off a start to the wrestling match. Dalinar immediately lunged forward and slammed into Khal, grabbing him under the arms, struggling to hold his feet back and force his opponent off balance. The wrestling match would eventually go to the ground, but you wanted to be the one who controlled when and how that happened.
There was no grabbing the leggings in a traditional vehah match, and of course no grabbing hair, so Dalinar twisted, trying to get his opponent into a sturdy hold while preventing the man from shoving Dalinar over. Dalinar scrambled, his muscles taut, his fingers slipping on his opponent’s skin.
For those frantic moments, he could focus only on the match. His strength against that of his opponent. Sliding his feet, twisting his weight, straining for purchase. There was a purity to the contest, a simplicity that he hadn’t experienced in what seemed like ages.
Aratin pulled Dalinar tight, then managed to twist, tripping Dalinar over his hip. They went to the mat, and Dalinar grunted, raising his arm to his neck to prevent a chokehold, turning his head. Old training prompted him to twist and writhe before the opponent could get a good grip on him.
Too slow. It had been years since he’d done this regularly. The other man moved with Dalinar’s twist, forgoing the attempt at a chokehold, instead getting Dalinar under the arms from behind and pressing him down, face against the mat, his weight on top of Dalinar.
Dalinar growled, and by instinct reached out for that extra reserve he’d always had. The pulse of the fight, the edge.
The Thrill. Soldiers spoke of it in the quiet of the night, over campfires. That battle rage unique to the Alethi. Some called it the power of their ancestors, others the true mindset of the soldier. It had driven the Sunmaker to glory. It was the open secret of Alethi success.
No. Dalinar stopped himself from reaching for it, but he needn’t have worried. He couldn’t remember feeling the Thrill in months—and the longer he’d been apart from it, the more he’d begun to recognize that there was something profoundly wrong about the Thrill.
So he gritted his teeth and struggled—cleanly and fairly—with his opponent.
And got pinned.
Aratin was younger, more practiced at this style of fight. Dalinar didn’t make it easy, but he was on the bottom, lacked leverage, and simply wasn’t as young as he’d once been. Aratin twisted him over, and before too long Dalinar found himself pressed to the mat, shoulders down, completely immobilized.
Dalinar knew he was beaten, but couldn’t bring himself to tap out. Instead he strained against the hold, teeth gritted and sweat pouring down the sides of his face. He became aware of something. Not the Thrill… but Stormlight in the pocket of his uniform trousers, lying beside the ring.
Aratin grunted, arms like steel. Dalinar smelled his own sweat, the rough cloth of the mat. His muscles protested the treatment.
He knew he could seize the Stormlight power, but his sense of fairness protested at the mere thought. Instead he arched his back, holding his breath and heaving with everything he had, then twisted, trying to get back on his face for the leverage to escape.
His opponent shifted. Then groaned, and Dalinar felt the man’s grip slipping… slowly.…
“Oh, for storm’s sake,” a feminine voice said. “Dalinar?”
Dalinar’s opponent let go immediately, backing away. Dalinar twisted, puffing from exertion, to find Navani standing outside the ring with arms folded. He grinned at her, then stood up and accepted a light takama over-shirt and towel from an aide. As Aratin Khal retreated, Dalinar raised a fist to him and bowed his head—a sign that Dalinar considered Aratin the victor. “Well played, son.”
“An honor, sir!”
Dalinar threw on the takama, turning to Navani and wiping his brow with the towel. “Come to watch me spar?”
“Yes, what every wife loves,” Navani said. “Seeing that in his spare time, her husband likes to roll around on the floor with half-naked, sweaty men.” She glanced at Aratin. “Shouldn’t you be sparring with men closer to your own age?”
“On the battlefield,” Dalinar said, “I don’t have the luxury of choosing the age of my opponent. Best to fight at a disadvantage here to prepare.” He hesitated, then said more softly, “I think I almost had him anyway.”
“Your definition of ‘almost’ is particularly ambitious, gemheart.”
Dalinar accepted a waterskin from an aide. Though Navani and her aides weren’t the only women in the room, the others were ardents. Navani in her bright yellow gown still stood out like a flower on a barren stone field.
As Dalinar scanned the chamber, he found that many of the ardents— not just the swordmasters—failed to meet his gaze. And there was Kadash, his former comrade-in-arms, speaking with the swordmasters.
Nearby, Aratin was receiving congratulations from his friends. Pinning the Blackthorn was considered quite the accomplishment. The young man accepted their praise with a grin, but he held his shoulder and winced when someone slapped him on the back.
I should have tapped out, Dalinar thought. Pushing the contest had endangered them both. He was annoyed at himself. He’d specifically chosen someone younger and stronger, then became a poor loser? Getting older was something he needed to accept, and he was kidding himself if he actually thought this would help him on the battlefield. He’d given away his armor, no longer carried a Shardblade. When exactly did he expect to be fighting in person again?
The man with nine shadows.
The water suddenly tasted stale in his mouth. He’d been expecting to fight the enemy’s champion himself, assuming he could even make the contest happen to their advantage. But wouldn’t assigning the duty to someone like Kaladin make far more sense?
“Well,” Navani said, “you might want to throw on a uniform. The Iriali queen is ready.”
“The meeting isn’t for a few hours.”
“She wants to do it now. Apparently, her court tidereader saw something in the waves that means an earlier meeting is better. She should be contacting us any minute.”
Storming Iriali. Still, they had an Oathgate—two, if you counted the one in the kingdom of Rira, which Iri had sway over. Among Iri’s three monarchs, currently two kings and a queen, the latter had authority over foreign policy, so she was the one they needed to talk to.
“I’m fine with moving up the time,” Dalinar said. “I’ll await you in the writing chamber.”
“Why?” Dalinar said, waving a hand. “It’s not like she can see me. Set up here.”
“Here,” Navani said flatly.
“Here,” Dalinar said, feeling stubborn. “I’ve had enough of cold chambers, silent save for the scratching of reeds.”
Navani raised an eyebrow at him, but ordered her assistants to get out their writing materials. A worried ardent came over, perhaps to try to dissuade her—but after a few firm orders from Navani, he went running to get her a bench and table.
Dalinar smiled and went to select two training swords from a rack near the swordmasters. Common longswords of unsharpened steel. He tossed one to Kadash, who caught it smoothly, but then placed it in front of him with point down, resting his hands on the pommel.
“Brightlord,” Kadash said, “I would prefer to give this task to another, as I don’t particularly feel—”
“Tough,” Dalinar said. “I need some practice, Kadash. As your master, I demand you give it to me.”
Kadash stared at Dalinar for a protracted moment, then let out an annoyed huff and followed Dalinar to the ring. “I won’t be much of a match for you, Brightlord. I have dedicated my years to scripture, not the sword. I was only here to—”
“—check up on me. I know. Well, maybe I’ll be rusty too. I haven’t fought with a common longsword in decades. I always had something better.”
“Yes. I remember when you first got your Blade. The world itself trembled on that day, Dalinar Kholin.”
“Don’t be melodramatic,” Dalinar said. “I was merely one in a long line of idiots given the ability to kill people too easily.”
Rial hesitantly counted the start to the match, and Dalinar rushed in swinging. Kadash rebuffed him competently, then stepped to the side of the ring. “Pardon, Brightlord, but you were different from the others. You were much, much better at the killing part.”
I always have been, Dalinar thought, rounding Kadash. It was odd to remember the ardent as one of his elites. They hadn’t been close then; they’d only become so during Kadash’s years as an ardent.
Navani cleared her throat. “Hate to interrupt this stick-wagging,” she said, “but the queen is ready to speak with you, Dalinar.”
“Great,” he said, not taking his eyes off Kadash. “Read me what she says.”
“While you’re sparring?”
“Sure.”
He could practically feel Navani roll her eyes. He grinned, coming in at Kadash again. She thought he was being silly. Perhaps he was.
He was also failing. One at a time, the world’s monarchs were shutting him out. Only Taravangian of Kharbranth—known to be slow witted— had agreed to listen to him. Dalinar was doing something wrong. In an extended war campaign, he’d have forced himself to look at his problems from a new perspective. Bring in new officers to voice their ideas. Try to approach battles from different terrain.
Dalinar clashed blades with Kadash, smashing metal against metal.
“ ‘Highprince,’ ” Navani read as he fought, “ ‘it is with wondrous awe at the grandeur of the One that I approach you. The time for the world to undergo a glorious new experience has arrived.’ ”
“Glorious, Your Majesty?” Dalinar said, swiping at Kadash’s leg. The man dodged back. “Surely you can’t welcome these events?”
“ ‘All experience is welcome,’” came the reply. “ ‘We are the One experiencing itself—and this new storm is glorious even if it brings pain.’ ”
Dalinar grunted, blocking a backhand from Kadash. Swords rang loudly. “I hadn’t realized,” Navani noted, “that she was so religious.”
“Pagan superstition,” Kadash said, sliding back across the mat from Dalinar. “At least the Azish have the decency to worship the Heralds, although they blasphemously place them above the Almighty. The Iriali are no better than Shin shamans.”
“I remember, Kadash,” Dalinar said, “when you weren’t nearly so judgmental.”
“I’ve been informed that my laxness might have served to encourage you.”
“I always found your perspective to be refreshing.” He stared right at Kadash, but spoke to Navani. “Tell her: Your Majesty, as much as I welcome a challenge, I fear the suffering these new… experiences will bring. We must be unified in the face of the coming dangers.”
“Unity,” Kadash said softly. “If that is your goal, Dalinar, then why do you seek to rip apart your own people?”
Navani started writing. Dalinar drew closer, passing his longsword from one hand to the other. “How do you know, Kadash? How do you know the Iriali are the pagans?”
Kadash frowned. Though he wore the square beard of an ardent, that scar on his head wasn’t the only thing that set him apart from his fellows. They treated swordplay like just another art. Kadash had the haunted eyes of a soldier. When he dueled, he kept watch to the sides, in case someone tried to flank him. An impossibility in a solo duel, but all too likely on a battlefield.
“How can you ask that, Dalinar?”
“Because it should be asked,” Dalinar said. “You claim the Almighty is God. Why?”
“Because he simply is.”
“That isn’t good enough for me,” Dalinar said, realizing for the first time it was true. “Not anymore.”
The ardent growled, then leaped in, attacking with real determination this time. Dalinar danced backward, fending him off, as Navani read— loudly.
“ ‘Highprince, I will be frank. The Iriali Triumvirate is in agreement. Alethkar has not been relevant in the world since the Sunmaker’s fall. The power of the ones who control the new storm, however, is undeniable. They offer gracious terms.’ ”
Dalinar stopped in place, dumbfounded. “You’d side with the Voidbringers?” he asked toward Navani, but then was forced to defend himself from Kadash, who hadn’t let up.
“What?” Kadash said, clanging his blade against Dalinar’s. “Surprised someone is willing to side with evil, Dalinar? That someone would pick darkness, superstition, and heresy instead of the Almighty’s light?”
“I am not a heretic.” Dalinar slapped Kadash’s blade away—but not before the ardent scored a touch on Dalinar’s arm. The hit was hard, and though the swords were blunted, that would bruise for certain.
“You just told me you doubted the Almighty,” Kadash said. “What is left, after that?”
“I don’t know,” Dalinar said. He stepped closer. “I don’t know, and that terrifies me, Kadash. But Honor spoke to me, confessed that he was beaten.”
“The princes of the Voidbringers,” Kadash said, “were said to be able to blind the eyes of men. To send them lies, Dalinar.”
He rushed in, swinging, but Dalinar danced back, retreating around the rim of the dueling ring.
“ ‘My people,’” Navani said, reading the reply from the queen of Iri, “ ‘do not want war. Perhaps the way to prevent another Desolation is to let the Voidbringers take what they wish. From our histories, sparse though they are, it seems that this was the one option men never explored. An experience from the One we rejected.’ ”
Navani looked up, obviously as surprised to read the words as Dalinar was to hear them. The pen kept writing. “ ‘Beyond that,’ ” she added, “ ‘we have reasons to distrust the word of a thief, Highprince Kholin.’ ”
Dalinar groaned. So that was what this was all about—Adolin’s Shardplate. Dalinar glanced at Navani. “Find out more, try to console them?”
She nodded, and started writing. Dalinar gritted his teeth and charged Kadash again. The ardent caught his sword, then grabbed his takama with his free hand, pulling him close, face to face.
“The Almighty is not dead,” Kadash hissed.
“Once, you’d have counseled me. Now you glare at me. What happened to the ardent I knew? A man who had lived a real life, not just watched the world from high towers and monasteries?”
“He’s frightened,” Kadash said softly. “That he’s somehow failed in his most solemn duty to a man he deeply admires.”
They met eyes, their swords still locked, but neither one actually trying to push the other. For a moment, Dalinar saw in Kadash the man he’d always been. The gentle, understanding model of everything good about the Vorin church.
“Give me something to take back to the curates of the church,” Kadash pled. “Recant your insistence that the Almighty is dead. If you do that, I can make them accept the marriage. Kings have done worse and retained Vorin support.”
Dalinar set his jaw, then shook his head.
“Dalinar…”
“Falsehoods serve nobody, Kadash,” Dalinar said, pulling back. “If the Almighty is dead, then pretending otherwise is pure stupidity. We need real hope, not faith in lies.”
Around the room, more than a few men had stopped their bouts to watch or listen. The swordmasters had stepped up behind Navani, who was still exchanging some politic words with the Iriali queen.
“Don’t throw out everything we’ve believed because of a few dreams, Dalinar,” Kadash said. “What of our society, what of tradition?”
“Tradition?” Dalinar said. “Kadash, did I ever tell you about my first sword trainer?”
“No,” Kadash said, frowning, glancing at the other ardents. “Was it Rembrinor?”
Dalinar shook his head. “Back when I was young, our branch of the Kholin family didn’t have grand monasteries and beautiful practice grounds. My father found a teacher for me from two towns over. His name was Harth. Young fellow, not a true swordmaster—but good enough.
“He was very focused on proper procedure, and wouldn’t let me train until I’d learned how to put on a takama the right way.” Dalinar gestured at the takama shirt he was wearing. “He wouldn’t have stood for me fighting like this. You put on the skirt, then the overshirt, then you wrap your cloth belt around yourself three times and tie it.
“I always found that annoying. The belt was too tight, wrapped three times—you had to pull it hard to get enough slack to tie the knot. The first time I went to duels at a neighboring town, I felt like an idiot. Everyone else had long drooping belt ends at the front of their takamas.
“I asked Harth why we did it differently. He said it was the right way, the true way. So, when my travels took me to Harth’s hometown, I searched out his master, a man who had trained with the ardents in Kholinar. He insisted that this was the right way to tie a takama, as he’d learned from his master.”
By now, they’d drawn an even larger crowd. Kadash frowned. “And the point?”
“I found my master’s master’s master in Kholinar after we captured it,” Dalinar said. “The ancient, wizened ardent was eating curry and flatbread, completely uncaring of who ruled the city. I asked him. Why tie your belt three times, when everyone else thinks you should do it twice?
“The old man laughed and stood up. I was shocked to see that he was terribly short. ‘If I only tie it twice,’ he exclaimed, ‘the ends hang down so low, I trip!’ ”
The chamber fell silent. Nearby, one soldier chuckled, but quickly cut himself off—none of the ardents seemed amused.
“I love tradition,” Dalinar said to Kadash. “I’ve fought for tradition. I make my men follow the codes. I uphold Vorin virtues. But merely being tradition does not make something worthy, Kadash. We can’t just assume that because something is old it is right.”
He turned to Navani.
“She’s not listening,” Navani said. “She insists you are a thief, not to be trusted.”
“Your Majesty,” Dalinar said. “I am led to believe that you would let nations fall, and men be slaughtered, because of a petty grievance from the past. If my relations with the kingdom of Rira are prompting you to consider supporting the enemies of all humankind, then perhaps we could discuss a personal reconciliation first.”
Navani nodded at that, though she glanced at the people watching and cocked an eyebrow. She thought all this should have been done in private. Well, perhaps she was right. At the same time, Dalinar felt he’d needed this. He couldn’t explain why.
He raised his sword to Kadash in a sign of respect. “Are we done here?”
In response, Kadash came running at him, sword raised. Dalinar sighed, then let himself get touched on the left, but ended the exchange with his weapon leveled at Kadash’s neck.
“That’s not a valid dueling strike,” the ardent said.
“I’m not much of a duelist these days.”
The ardent grunted, then shoved away Dalinar’s weapon and lunged at him. Dalinar, however, caught Kadash’s arm, then spun the man with his own momentum. He slammed Kadash down to the ground and held him there.
“The world is ending, Kadash,” Dalinar said. “I can’t simply rely on tradition. I need to know why. Convince me. Offer me proof of what you say.” “You shouldn’t need proof in the Almighty. You sound like your niece!”
“I’ll take that as a compliment.”
“What… what of the Heralds?” Kadash said. “Do you deny them, Dalinar? They were servants of the Almighty, and their existence proved his. They had power.”
“Power?” Dalinar said. “Like this?”
He sucked in Stormlight. Murmuring rose from those watching as Dalinar began to glow, then did… something else. Commanded the Light. When he rose, he left Kadash stuck to the ground in a pool of Radiance that held him fast, binding him to the stone. The ardent wriggled, helpless.
“The Knights Radiant have returned,” Dalinar said. “And yes, I accept the authority of the Heralds. I accept that there was a being, once, named Honor—the Almighty. He helped us, and I would welcome his help again. If you can prove to me that Vorinism as it currently stands is what the Heralds taught, we will speak again.”
He tossed his sword aside and stepped up to Navani.
“Nice show,” she said softly. “That was for the room, not just Kadash, I assume?”
“The soldiers need to know where I stand in relation to the church.
What does our queen say?”
“Nothing good,” she muttered. “She says you can contact her with arrangements for the return of the stolen goods, and she’ll consider.”
“Storming woman,” Dalinar said. “She’s after Adolin’s Shardplate. How valid is her claim?”
“Not very,” Navani said. “You got that through marriage, and to a lighteyes from Rira, not Iri. Yes, the Iriali claim their sister nation as a vassal, but even if the claim weren’t disputed, the queen doesn’t have any actual relation to Evi or her brother.”
Dalinar grunted. “Rira was never strong enough to try to claim the Plate back. But if it will bring Iri to our side, then I’d consider it. Maybe I can agree to…” He trailed off. “Wait. What did you say?”
“Hum?” Navani said. “About… oh, right. You can’t hear her name.” “Say it again,” Dalinar whispered.
“What?” Navani said. “Evi?”
Memories blossomed in Dalinar’s head. He staggered, then slumped against the writing table, feeling as if he’d been struck by a hammer to the head. Navani called for physicians, implying his dueling had overtaxed him.
That wasn’t it. Instead, it was the burning in his mind, the sudden shock of a word spoken.
Evi. He could hear his wife’s name.
And he suddenly remembered her face.
Chapter 17
Trapped in Shadows
It is not a lesson I claim to be able to teach. Experience herself is the great teacher, and you must seek her directly.
—From Oathbringer, preface
I still think we should kill him,” Khen—the parshwoman who had been playing cards—said to the others.
Kaladin sat tied and bound to a tree. He’d spent the night there. They’d let him up several times to use the latrine today, but otherwise kept him bound. Though their knots were good, they always posted guards, even though he’d turned himself in to them in the first place.
His muscles were stiff, and the posture was uncomfortable, but he had endured worse as a slave. Almost the entire afternoon had passed so far— and they were still arguing about him.
He didn’t see that yellow-white spren again, the one that had been a ribbon of light. He almost thought he’d imagined it. At least the rain had finally stopped. Hopefully that meant the highstorms—and Stormlight— were close to returning.
“Kill him?” another of the parshmen said. “Why? What danger is he to us?”
“He’ll tell others where we are.”
“He found us easily enough on his own. I doubt others will have trouble, Khen.”
The parshmen didn’t seem to have a specific leader. Kaladin could hear them talking from where they stood, huddled together beneath a tarp. The air smelled wet, and the clump of trees shivered when a gust of wind blew through. A shower of water drops came down on top of him, somehow more cold than the Weeping itself.
Soon, blessedly, this would all dry up and he could finally see the sun again.
“So we let him go?” Khen asked. She had a gruff voice, angry.
“I don’t know. Would you actually do it, Khen? Bash his head in yourself ?”
The tent fell silent.
“If it means they can’t take us again?” she said. “Yes, I’d kill him. I won’t go back, Ton.”
They had simple, darkeyed Alethi names—matched by their uncomfortably familiar accents. Kaladin didn’t worry for his safety; though they’d taken his knife, spanreed, and spheres, he could summon Syl at a moment’s notice. She flitted nearby on gusts of wind, dodging between the branches of trees.
The parshmen eventually left their conference, and Kaladin dozed. He was later roused by the noise of them gathering up their meager belongings: an axe or two, some waterskins, the nearly ruined bags of grain. As the sun set, long shadows stretched across Kaladin, plunging the camp into darkness again. It seemed that the group moved at night.
The tall male who had been playing cards the night before approached Kaladin, who recognized the pattern of his skin. He untied the ropes binding Kaladin to the tree, the ones around his ankles—but left the bonds on Kaladin’s hands.
“You could capture that card,” Kaladin noted.
The parshman stiffened.
“The card game,” Kaladin said. “The squire can capture if supported by an allied card. So you were right.”
The parshman grunted, yanking on the rope to tow Kaladin to his feet. He stretched, working stiff muscles and painful cramps, as the other parshmen broke down the last of the improvised tarp tents: the one that had been fully enclosed. Earlier in the day, though, Kaladin had gotten a look at what was inside.
Children.
There were a dozen of them, dressed in smocks, of various ages from toddler to young teenager. The females wore their hair loose, and the males wore theirs tied or braided. They hadn’t been allowed to leave the tent except at a few carefully supervised moments, but he had heard them laughing. He’d first worried they were captured human children.
As the camp broke, they scattered about, excited to finally be released. One younger girl scampered across the wet stones and seized the empty hand of the man leading Kaladin. Each of the children bore the distinctive look of their elders—the not-quite-Parshendi appearance with the armored portions on the sides of their heads and forearms. For the children, the color of the carapace was a light orange-pink.
Kaladin couldn’t define why this sight seemed so strange to him. Parshmen did breed, though people often spoke of them being bred, like animals. And, well, that wasn’t far from the truth, was it? Everyone knew it.
What would Shen—Rlain—think if Kaladin had said those words out loud?
The procession moved out of the trees, Kaladin led by his ropes. They kept talk to a minimum, and as they crossed through a field in the darkness, Kaladin had a distinct impression of familiarity. Had he been here before, done this before?
“What about the king?” his captor said, speaking in a soft voice, but turning his head to direct the question at Kaladin.
Elhokar? What… Oh, right. The cards.
“The king is one of the most powerful cards you can place,” Kaladin said, struggling to remember all the rules. “He can capture any other card except another king, and can’t be captured himself unless touched by three enemy cards of knight or better. Um… and he is immune to the Soulcaster.” I think.
“When I watched men play, they used this card rarely. If it is so powerful, why delay?”
“If your king gets captured, you lose,” Kaladin said. “So you only play him if you’re desperate or if you are certain you can defend him. Half the times I’ve played, I left him in my barrack all game.”
The parshman grunted, then looked to the girl at his side, who tugged on his arm and pointed. He gave her a whispered response, and she ran on tiptoes toward a patch of flowering rockbuds, visible by the light of the first moon.
The vines pulled back, blossoms closing. The girl, however, knew to squat at the side and wait, hands poised, until the flowers reopened—then she snatched one in each hand, her giggles echoing across the plain. Joyspren followed her like blue leaves as she returned, giving Kaladin a wide berth.
Khen, walking with a cudgel in her hands, urged Kaladin’s captor to keep moving. She watched the area with the nervousness of a scout on a dangerous mission.
That’s it, Kaladin thought, remembering why this felt familiar. Sneaking away from Tasinar.
It had happened after he’d been condemned by Amaram, but before he’d been sent to the Shattered Plains. He avoided thinking of those months. His repeated failures, the systematic butchering of his last hints of idealism… well, he’d learned that dwelling on such things took him to dark places. He’d failed so many people during those months. Nalma had been one of those. He could remember the touch of her hand in his: a rough, callused hand.
That had been his most successful escape attempt. It had lasted five days.
“You’re not monsters,” Kaladin whispered. “You’re not soldiers. You’re not even the seeds of the void. You’re just… runaway slaves.”
His captor spun, yanking on Kaladin’s rope. The parshman seized Kaladin by the front of his uniform, and his daughter hid behind his leg, dropping one of her flowers and whimpering.
“Do you want me to kill you?” the parshman asked, pulling Kaladin’s face close to his own. “You insist on reminding me how your kind see us?”
Kaladin grunted. “Look at my forehead, parshman.”
“And?”
“Slave brands.”
“What?”
Storms… parshmen weren’t branded, and they didn’t mix with other slaves. Parshmen were actually too valuable for that. “When they make a human into a slave,” Kaladin said, “they brand him. I’ve been here. Right where you are.”
“And you think that makes you understand?”
“Of course it does. I’m one—”
“I have spent my entire life living in a fog,” the parshman yelled at him. “Every day knowing I should say something, do something to stop this! Every night clutching my daughter, wondering why the world seems to move around us in the light—while we are trapped in shadows. They sold her mother. Sold her. Because she had birthed a healthy child, which made her good breeding stock.
“Do you understand that, human? Do you understand watching your family be torn apart, and knowing you should object—knowing deep in your soul that something is profoundly wrong? Can you know that feeling of being unable to say a single storming word to stop it?”
The parshman pulled him even closer. “They may have taken your freedom, but they took our minds.”
He dropped Kaladin and whirled, gathering up his daughter and holding her close as he jogged to catch up to the others, who had turned back at the outburst. Kaladin followed, yanked by his rope, stepping on the little girl’s flower in his forced haste. Syl zipped past, and when Kaladin tried to catch her attention, she just laughed and flew higher on a burst of wind.
His captor suffered several quiet chastisements when they caught up; this column couldn’t afford to draw attention. Kaladin walked with them, and remembered. He did understand a little.
You were never free while you ran; you felt as if the open sky and the endless fields were a torment. You could feel the pursuit following, and each morning you awoke expecting to find yourself surrounded.
Until one day you were right.
But parshmen? He’d accepted Shen into Bridge Four, yes. But accepting that a sole parshman could be a bridgeman was starkly different from accepting the entire people as… well, human.
As the column stopped to distribute waterskins to the children, Kaladin felt at his forehead, tracing the scarred shape of the glyphs there.
They took our minds.…
They’d tried to take his mind too. They’d beaten him to the stones, stolen everything he loved, and murdered his brother. Left him unable to think straight. Life had become a blur until one day he’d found himself standing over a ledge, watching raindrops die and struggling to summon the motivation to end his life.
Syl soared past in the shape of a shimmering ribbon.
“Syl,” Kaladin hissed. “I need to talk to you. This isn’t the time for—”
“Hush,” she said, then giggled and zipped around him before flitting over and doing the same to his captor.
Kaladin frowned. She was acting so carefree. Too carefree? Like she’d been back before they forged their bond?
No. It couldn’t be.
“Syl?” he begged as she returned. “Is something wrong with the bond? Please, I didn’t—”
“It’s not that,” she said, speaking in a furious whisper. “I think parshmen might be able to see me. Some, at least. And that other spren is still here too. A higher spren, like me.”
“Where?” Kaladin asked, twisting.
“He’s invisible to you,” Syl said, becoming a group of leaves and blowing around him. “I think I’ve fooled him into thinking I’m just a windspren.”
She zipped away, leaving a dozen unanswered questions on Kaladin’s lips. Storms… is that spren how they know where to go?
The column started again, and Kaladin walked for a good hour in silence before Syl next decided to come back to him. She landed on his shoulder, becoming the image of a young woman in her whimsical skirt. “He’s gone ahead for a little bit,” she said. “And the parshmen aren’t looking.”
“The spren is guiding them,” Kaladin said under his breath. “Syl, this spren must be…”
“From him,” she whispered, wrapping her arms around herself and growing small—actively shrinking to about two-thirds her normal size. “Voidspren.”
“There’s more,” Kaladin said. “These parshmen… how do they know how to talk, how to act? Yes, they’ve spent their lives around society—but to be this, well, normal after such a long time half asleep?”
“The Everstorm,” Syl said. “Power has filled the holes in their souls, bridging the gaps. They didn’t just wake, Kaladin. They’ve been healed, Connection refounded, Identity restored. There’s more to this than we ever realized. Somehow when you conquered them, you stole their ability to change forms. You literally ripped off a piece of their souls and locked it away.” She turned sharply. “He’s coming back. I will stay nearby, in case you need a Blade.”
She left, zipping straight into the air as a ribbon of light. Kaladin continued to shuffle behind the column, chewing on her words, before speeding up and stepping beside his captor.
“You’re being smart, in some ways,” Kaladin said. “It’s good to travel at night. But you’re following the riverbed over there. I know it makes for more trees, and more secure camping, but this is literally the first place someone would look for you.”
Several of the other parshmen gave him glances from nearby. His captor didn’t say anything.
“The big group is an issue too,” Kaladin added. “You should break into smaller groups and meet up each morning, so if you get spotted you’ll seem less threatening. You can say you were sent somewhere by a lighteyes, and travelers might let you go. If they run across all seventy of you together, there’s no chance of that. This is all assuming, of course, you don’t want to fight—which you don’t. If you fight, they’ll call out the highlords against you. For now they’ve got bigger problems.”
His captor grunted.
“I can help you,” Kaladin said. “I might not understand what you’ve been through, but I do know what it feels like to run.”
“You think I’d trust you?” the parshman finally said. “You will want us to be caught.”
“I’m not sure I do,” Kaladin said, truthful.
His captor said nothing more and Kaladin sighed, dropping back into position behind. Why had the Everstorm not granted these parshmen powers like those on the Shattered Plains? What of the stories of scripture and lore? The Desolations?
They eventually stopped for another break, and Kaladin found himself a smooth rock to sit against, nestled into the stone. His captor tied the rope to a nearby lonely tree, then went to confer with the others. Kaladin leaned back, lost in thought until he heard a sound. He was surprised to find his captor’s daughter approaching. She carried a waterskin in two hands, and stopped right beyond his reach.
She didn’t have shoes, and the walk so far had not been kind to her feet, which—though tough with calluses—were still scored by scratches and scrapes. She timidly set the waterskin down, then backed away. She didn’t flee, as Kaladin might have expected, when he reached for the water.
“Thank you,” he said, then took a mouthful. It was pure and clear— apparently the parshmen knew how to settle and scoop their water. He ignored the rumbling of his stomach.
“Will they really chase us?” the girl asked.
By Mishim’s pale green light, he decided this girl was not as timid as he had assumed. She was nervous, but she met his eyes with hers.
“Why can’t they just let us go?” she asked. “Could you go back and tell them? We don’t want trouble. We just want to go away.”
“They’ll come,” Kaladin said. “I’m sorry. They have a lot of work to do in rebuilding, and they’ll want the extra hands. You are a… resource they can’t simply ignore.”
The humans he’d visited hadn’t known to expect some terrible Voidbringer force; many thought their parshmen had merely run off in the chaos.
“But why?” she said, sniffling. “What did we do to them?”
“You tried to destroy them.”
“No. We’re nice. We’ve always been nice. I never hit anyone, even when I was mad.”
“I didn’t mean you specifically,” Kaladin said. “Your ancestors—the people like you from long ago. There was a war, and…”
Storms. How did you explain slavery to a seven-year-old? He tossed the waterskin to her, and she scampered back to her father—who had only just noticed her absence. He stood, a stark silhouette in the night, studying Kaladin.
“They’re talking about making camp,” Syl whispered from nearby. She had crawled into a crack in the rock. “The Voidspren wants them to march on through the day, but I don’t think they’re going to. They’re worried about their grain spoiling.”
“Is that spren watching me right now?” Kaladin asked. “No.”
“Then let’s cut this rope.”
He turned and hid what he was doing, then quickly summoned Syl as a knife to cut himself free. That would change his eye color, but in the darkness, he hoped the parshmen wouldn’t notice.
Syl puffed back into a spren. “Sword now?” she said. “The spheres they took from you have all run out, but they’ll scatter at seeing a Blade.”
“No.” Kaladin instead picked up a large stone. The parshmen hushed, noticing his escape. Kaladin carried his rock a few steps, then dropped it, crushing a rockbud. He was surrounded a few moments later by angry parshmen carrying cudgels.
Kaladin ignored them, picking through the wreckage of the rockbud. He held up a large section of shell.
“The inside of this,” he said, turning it over for them, “will still be dry, despite the rainfall. The rockbud needs a barrier between itself and the water outside for some reason, though it always seems eager to drink after a storm. Who has my knife?”
Nobody moved to return it.
“If you scrape off this inner layer,” Kaladin said, tapping at the rockbud shell, “you can get to the dry portion. Now that the rain has stopped, I should be able to get us a fire going, assuming nobody has lost my tinder bag. We need to boil that grain, then dry it into cakes. They won’t be tasty, but they’ll keep. If you don’t do something soon, your supplies will rot.”
He stood up and pointed. “Since we’re already here, we should be near enough the river that we can gather more water. It won’t flow much longer with the end of the rains.
“Rockbud shells don’t burn particularly well, so we’ll want to harvest some real wood and dry it at the fire during the day. We can keep that one small, then do the cooking tomorrow night. In the dark, the smoke is less likely to reveal us, and we can shield the light in the trees. I just have to figure out how we’re going to cook without any pots to boil the water.”
The parshmen stared at him. Then Khen finally pushed him away from the rockbud and took up the shard he’d been holding. Kaladin spotted his original captor standing near the rock where Kaladin had been sitting. The parshman held the rope Kaladin had cut, rubbing its sliced-through end with his thumb.
After a short conference, the parshmen dragged him to the trees he’d indicated, returned his knife—standing by with every cudgel they had— and demanded that he prove he could build a fire with wet wood.
He did just that.
Chapter18
Double Vision
You cannot have a spice described to you, but must taste it for yourself.
—From Oathbringer, preface
Shallan became Veil.
Stormlight made her face less youthful, more angular. Nose pointed, with a small scar on the chin. Her hair rippled from red to Alethi black. Making an illusion like this took a larger gem of Stormlight, but once it was going, she could maintain it for hours on just a smidgen.
Veil tossed aside the havah, instead pulling on trousers and a tight shirt, then boots and a long white coat. She finished with only a simple glove on the left hand. Veil, of course, wasn’t in the least embarrassed at that.
There was a simple relief for Shallan’s pain. There was an easy way to hide. Veil hadn’t suffered as Shallan had—and she was tough enough to handle that sort of thing anyway. Becoming her was like setting down a terrible burden.
Veil threw a scarf around her neck, then slung a rugged satchel— acquired for Veil specifically—over her shoulder. Hopefully the conspicuous knife handle sticking out from the top would look natural, even intimidating.
The part at the back of her mind that was still Shallan worried about this. Would she look fake? She’d almost certainly missed some subtle clues encoded in her behavior, dress, or speech. These would indicate to the right people that Veil didn’t have the hard-bitten experience she feigned.
Well, she would have to do her best and hope to recover from her inevitable mistakes. She tied another knife onto her belt, long, but not quite a sword, since Veil wasn’t lighteyed. Fortunately. No lighteyed woman would be able to prance around so obviously armed. Some mores grew lax the farther you descended the social ladder.
“Well?” Veil asked, turning to the wall, where Pattern hung.
“Mmm…” he said. “Good lie.”
“Thank you.”
“Not like the other.”
“Radiant?”
“You slip in and out of her,” Pattern said, “like the sun behind clouds.”
“I just need more practice,” Veil said. Yes, that voice sounded excellent.
Shallan was getting far better with sounds.
She picked Pattern up—which involved pressing her hand against the wall, letting him pass over to her skin and then her coat. With him humming happily, she crossed her room and stepped out onto the balcony. The first moon had risen, violet and proud Salas. She was the least bright of the moons, which meant it was mostly dark out.
Most rooms on the outside had these small balconies, but hers on the second level was particularly advantageous. It had steps down to the field below. Covered in furrows for water and ridges for planting rockbuds, the field also had boxes at the edges for growing tubers or ornamental plants. Each tier of the city had a similar one, with eighteen levels inside separating them.
She stepped down to the field in the darkness. How had anything ever grown up here? Her breath puffed out in front of her, and coldspren grew around her feet.
The field had a small access doorway back into Urithiru. Perhaps the subterfuge of not exiting through her room wasn’t necessary, but Veil preferred to be careful. She wouldn’t want guards or servants remarking on how Brightness Shallan went about during odd hours of the night.
Besides, who knew where Mraize and his Ghostbloods had operatives? They hadn’t contacted her since that first day in Urithiru, but she knew they’d be watching. She still didn’t know what to do about them. They had admitted to assassinating Jasnah, which should be grounds enough to hate them. They also seemed to know things, important things, about the world.
Veil strolled through the corridor, carrying a small hand lamp for light, as a sphere would make her stand out. She passed evening crowds that kept the corridors of Sebarial’s quarter as busy as his warcamp had been. Things never seemed to slow down here as much as they did in Dalinar’s quarter.
The strangely mesmerizing strata of the corridors guided her out of Sebarial’s quarter. The number of people in the hallways slackened. Just Veil and those lonely, endless tunnels. She felt as if she could sense the weight of the other levels of the tower, empty and unexplored, bearing down on her. A mountain of unknown stone.
She hurried on her way, Pattern humming to himself from her coat.
“I like him,” Pattern said.
“Who?” Veil said.
“The swordsman,” Pattern said. “Mmm. The one you can’t mate with yet.”
“Can we please stop talking about him that way?”
“Very well,” Pattern said. “But I like him.”
“You hate his sword.”
“I have come to understand,” Pattern said, growing excited. “Humans… humans don’t care about the dead. You build chairs and doors out of corpses! You eat corpses! You make clothing from the skins of corpses. Corpses are things to you.”
“Well, I guess that’s true.” He seemed unnaturally excited by the revelation.
“It is grotesque,” he continued, “but you all must kill and destroy to live. It is the way of the Physical Realm. So I should not hate Adolin Kholin for wielding a corpse!”
“You just like him,” Veil said, “because he tells Radiant to respect the sword.”
“Mmm. Yes, very, very nice man. Wonderfully smart too.”
“Why don’t you marry him, then?”
Pattern buzzed. “Is that—”
“No that’s not an option.”
“Oh.” He settled down into a contented buzz on her coat, where he appeared as a strange kind of embroidery.
After a short time walking, Shallan found she needed to say something more. “Pattern. Do you remember what you said to me the other night, the first time… we became Radiant?”
“About dying?” Pattern asked. “It may be the only way, Shallan. Mmm… You must speak truths to progress, but you will hate me for making it happen. So I can die, and once done you can—”
“No. No, please don’t leave me.”
“But you hate me.”
“I hate myself too,” she whispered. “Just… please. Don’t go. Don’t die.” Pattern seemed pleased by this, as his humming increased—though his sounds of pleasure and his sounds of agitation could be similar. For the moment, Veil let herself be distracted by the night’s quest. Adolin continued his efforts to find the murderer, but hadn’t gotten far. Aladar was Highprince of Information, and his policing force and scribes were a resource—but Adolin wanted badly to do as his father asked.
Veil thought that perhaps both were looking in the wrong places. She finally saw lights ahead and quickened her pace, eventually stepping out onto a walkway around a large cavernous room that stretched up several stories. She had reached the Breakaway: a vast collection of tents lit by many flickering candles, torches, or lanterns.
The market had sprung up shockingly fast, in defiance of Navani’s carefully outlined plans. Her idea had been for a grand thoroughfare with shops along the sides. No alleyways, no shanties or tents. Easily patrolled and carefully regulated.
The merchants had rebelled, complaining about lack of storage space, or the need to be closer to a well for fresh water. In reality, they wanted a larger market that was much harder to regulate. Sebarial, as Highprince of Commerce, had agreed. And despite having made a mess of his ledgers, he was sharp when it came to trade.
The chaos and variety of it excited Veil. Hundreds of people, despite the hour, attracting spren of a dozen varieties. Dozens upon dozens of tents of varied colors and designs. In fact, some weren’t tents at all, but were better described as stands—roped-off sections of ground guarded by a few burly men with cudgels. Others were actual buildings. Small stone sheds that had been built inside this cavern, here since the days of the Radiants.
Merchants from all ten original warcamps mixed at the Breakaway. She passed three different cobblers in a row; Veil had never understood why merchants selling the same things congregated. Wouldn’t it be better to set up where you wouldn’t have competition literally next door?
She packed away her hand lamp, as there was plenty of light here from the merchant tents and shops, and sauntered along. Veil felt more comfortable than she had in those empty, twisted corridors; here, life had gained a foothold. The market grew like the snarl of wildlife and plants on the leeward side of a ridge.
She made her way to the cavern’s central well: a large, round enigma that rippled with crem-free water. She’d never seen an actual well before— everyone normally used cisterns that refilled with the storms. The many wells in Urithiru, however, never ran out. The water level didn’t even drop, despite people constantly drawing from them.
Scribes talked about the possibility of a hidden aquifer in the mountains, but where would the water come from? Snows at the tops of the peaks nearby didn’t seem to melt, and rain fell very rarely.
Veil sat on the well’s side, one leg up, watching the people who came and went. She listened to the women chatter about the Voidbringers, about family back in Alethkar, and about the strange new storm. She listened to the men worry about being pressed into the military, or about their darkeyed nahn being lowered, now that there weren’t parshmen to do common work. Some lighteyed workers complained about supplies trapped back in Narak, waiting for Stormlight before they could be transferred here.
Veil eventually ambled off toward a particular row of taverns. I can’t interrogate too hard to get my answers, she thought. If I ask the wrong kind of questions, everyone will figure me for some kind of spy for Aladar’s policing force.
Veil. Veil didn’t hurt. She was comfortable, confident. She’d meet people’s eyes. She’d lift her chin in challenge to anyone who seemed to be sizing her up. Power was an illusion of perception.
Veil had her own kind of power, that of a lifetime spent on the streets knowing she could take care of herself. She had the stubbornness of a chull, and while she was cocky, that confidence was a power of its own. She got what she wanted and wasn’t embarrassed by success.
The first bar she chose was inside a large battle tent. It smelled of spilled lavis beer and sweaty bodies. Men and women laughed, using overturned crates as tables and chairs. Most wore simple darkeyed clothing: laced shirts—no money or time for buttons—and trousers or skirts. A few men dressed after an older fashion, with a wrap and a loose filmy vest that left the chest exposed.
This was a low-end tavern, and likely wouldn’t work for her needs. She’d need a place that was lower, yet somehow richer. More disreputable, but with access to the powerful members of the warcamp undergrounds.
Still, this seemed a good place to practice. The bar was made of stacked boxes and had some actual chairs beside it. Veil leaned against the “bar” in what she hoped was a smooth way, and nearly knocked the boxes over. She stumbled, catching them, then smiled sheepishly at the bartender—an old darkeyed woman with grey hair.
“What do you want?” the woman asked.
“Wine,” Veil said. “Sapphire.” The second most intoxicating. Let them see that Veil could handle the hard stuff.
“We got Vari, kimik, and a nice barrel of Veden. That one will cost you though.”
“Uh…” Adolin would have known the differences. “Give me the Veden.” Seemed appropriate.
The woman made her pay first, with dun spheres, but the cost didn’t seem outrageous. Sebarial wanted the liquor flowing—his suggested way to make sure tensions didn’t get too high in the tower—and had subsidized the prices with low taxes, for now.
While the woman worked behind her improvised bar, Veil suffered beneath the gaze of one of the bouncers. Those didn’t stay near the entrance, but instead waited here, beside the liquor and the money. Despite what Aladar’s policing force would like, this place was not completely safe. If unexplained murders had been glossed over or forgotten, they would have happened in the Breakaway, where the clutter, worry, and press of tens of thousands of camp followers balanced on the edge of lawlessness.
The barkeep plunked a cup in front of Veil—a tiny cup, with a clear liquid in it.
Veil scowled, holding it up. “You got mine wrong, barkeep; I ordered sapphire. What is this, water?”
The bouncer nearest Veil snickered, and the barkeep stopped in place, then looked her over. Apparently Shallan had already made one of those mistakes she’d been worried about.
“Kid,” the barkeep said, somehow leaning on the boxes near her and not knocking any over. “That’s the same stuff, just without the fancy infusions the lighteyes put in theirs.”
Infusions?
“You some kind of house servant?” the woman asked softly. “Out for your first night on your own?”
“Of course not,” Veil said. “I’ve done this a hundred times.”
“Sure, sure,” the woman replied, tucking a stray strand of hair behind her ear. It popped right back up. “You certain you want that? I might have some wines back here done with lighteyed colors, for you. In fact, I know I’ve got a nice orange.” She reached to reclaim the cup.
Veil seized it and knocked the entire thing back in a single gulp. That proved to be one of the worst mistakes of her life. The liquid burned, like it was on fire! She felt her eyes go wide, and she started coughing and almost threw up right there on the bar.
That was wine? Tasted more like lye. What was wrong with these people? There was no sweetness to it at all, not even a hint of flavor. Just that burning sensation, like someone was scraping her throat with a scouring brush! Her face immediately grew warm. It hit her so fast!
The bouncer was holding his face, trying—and failing—not to laugh out loud. The barkeep patted Shallan on the back as she kept coughing. “Here,” the woman said, “let me get you something to chase that—”
“No,” Shallan croaked. “I’m just happy to be able to drink this… again after so long. Another. Please.”
The barkeep seemed skeptical, though the bouncer was all for it—he’d settled down on the stool to watch Shallan, grinning. Shallan placed a sphere on the bar, defiant, and the barkeep reluctantly filled her cup again. By now, three or four other people from nearby seats had turned to watch.
Lovely. Shallan braced herself, then drank the wine in a long, extended gulp.
It wasn’t any better the second time. She held for a moment, eyes watering, then let out an explosion of coughing. She ended up hunched over, shaking, eyes squeezed closed. She was pretty sure she let out a long squeak as well.
Several people in the tent clapped. Shallan looked back at the amused barkeep, her eyes watering. “That was awful,” she said, then coughed. “You really drink this dreadful liquid?”
“Oh, hon,” the woman said. “That’s not nearly as bad as they get.”
Shallan groaned. “Well, get me another.”
“You sure—”
“Yes,” Shallan said with a sigh. She probably wasn’t going to be establishing a reputation for herself tonight—at least not the type she wanted. But she could try to accustom herself to drinking this cleaning fluid.
Storms. She was already feeling lighter. Her stomach did not like what she was doing to it, and she shoved down a bout of nausea.
Still chuckling, the bouncer moved a seat closer to her. He was a younger man, with hair cut so short it stood up on end. He was as Alethi as they came, with a deep tan skin and a dusting of black scrub on his chin.
“You should try sipping it,” he said to her. “Goes down easier in sips.”
“Great. That way I can savor the terrible flavor. So bitter! Wine is supposed to be sweet.”
“Depends on how you make it,” he said as the barkeep gave Shallan another cup. “Sapphire can sometimes be distilled tallew, no natural fruit in it—just some coloring for accent. But they don’t serve the really hard stuff at lighteyed parties, except to people who know how to ask for it.”
“You know your alcohol,” Veil said. The room shook for a moment before settling. Then she tried another drink—a sip this time.
“It comes with the job,” he said with a broad smile. “I work a lot of fancy events for the lighteyes, so I know my way around a place with tablecloths instead of boxes.”
Veil grunted. “They need bouncers at fancy lighteyed events?”
“Sure,” he said, cracking his knuckles. “You just have to know how to ‘escort’ someone out of the feast hall, instead of throwing them out. It’s actually easier.” He cocked his head. “But strangely, more dangerous at the same time.” He laughed.
Kelek, Veil realized as he scooted closer. He’s flirting with me.
She probably shouldn’t have found it so surprising. She’d come in alone, and while Shallan would never have described Veil as “cute,” she wasn’t ugly. She was kind of normal, if rugged, but she dressed well and obviously had money. Her face and hands were clean, her clothing—while not rich silks—a generous step up from worker garb.
Initially she was offended by his attention. Here she’d gone to all this trouble to make herself capable and hard as rocks, and the first thing she did was attract some guy? One who cracked his knuckles and tried to tell her how to drink her alcohol?
Just to spite him, she downed the rest of her cup in a single shot.
She immediately felt guilty for her annoyance at the man. Shouldn’t she be flattered? Granted, Adolin could have destroyed this man in any conceivable way. Adolin even cracked his knuckles louder.
“So…” the bouncer said. “Which warcamp you from?”
“Sebarial,” Veil said.
The bouncer nodded, as if he’d expected that. Sebarial’s camp had been the most eclectic. They chatted a little longer, mostly with Shallan making the odd comment while the bouncer—his name was Jor—went off on various stories with many tangents. Always smiling, often boasting.
He wasn’t too bad, though he didn’t seem to care what she actually said, so long as it prompted him to keep talking. She drank some more of the terrible liquid, but found her mind wandering.
These people… they each had lives, families, loves, dreams. Some slumped at their boxes, lonely, while others laughed with friends. Some kept their clothing, poor though it was, reasonably clean—others were stained with crem and lavis ale. Several of them reminded her of Tyn, the way they talked with confidence, the way their interactions were a subtle game of one-upping each other.
Jor paused, as if expecting something from her. What… what had he been saying? Following him was getting harder, as her mind drifted.
“Go on,” she said.
He smiled, and launched into another story.
I’m not going to be able to imitate this, she thought, leaning against her box, until I’ve lived it. No more than I could draw their lives without having walked among them.
The barkeep came back with the bottle, and Shallan nodded. That last cup hadn’t burned nearly as much as the others.
“You… sure you want more?” the bouncer asked.
Storms… she was starting to feel really sick. She’d had four cups, yes, but they were little cups. She blinked, and turned.
The room spun in a blur, and she groaned, resting her head on the table.
Beside her, the bouncer sighed.
“I could have told you that you were wasting your time, Jor,” the barkeep said. “This one will be out before the hour is done. Wonder what she’s trying to forget…”
“She’s just enjoying a little free time,” Jor said.
“Sure, sure. With eyes like those? I’m sure that’s it.” The barkeep moved away.
“Hey,” Jor said, nudging Shallan. “Where are you staying? I’ll call you a palanquin to cart you home. You awake? You should get going before things go too late. I know some porters who can be trusted.”
“It’s… not even late yet…” Shallan mumbled.
“Late enough,” Jor said. “This place can get dangerous.”
“Yeaaah?” Shallan asked, a glimmer of memory waking inside of her. “People get stabbed?”
“Unfortunately,” Jor said.
“You know of some… ?”
“Never happens here in this area, at least not yet.”
“Where? So I… so I can stay away…” Shallan said.
“All’s Alley,” he said. “Keep away from there. Someone got stabbed behind one of the taverns just last night there. They found him dead.”
“Real… real strange, eh?” Shallan asked.
“Yeah. You heard?” Jor shivered.
Shallan stood up to go, but the room upended about her, and she found herself slipping down beside her stool. Jor tried to catch her, but she hit the ground with a thump, knocking her elbow against the stone floor. She immediately sucked in a little Stormlight to help with the pain.
The cloud around her mind puffed away, and her vision stopped spinning. In a striking moment, her drunkenness simply vanished.
She blinked. Wow. She stood up without Jor’s help, dusting off her coat and then pulling her hair back away from her face. “Thanks,” she said, “but that’s exactly the information I need. Barkeep, we settled?”
The woman turned, then froze, staring at Shallan, pouring liquid into a cup until it overflowed.
Shallan picked up her cup, then turned it and shook the last drop into her mouth. “That’s good stuff,” she noted. “Thanks for the conversation, Jor.” She set a sphere on the boxes as a tip, pulled on her hat, then patted Jor fondly on the cheek before striding out of the tent.
“Stormfather!” Jor said from behind her. “Did I just get played for a fool?”
It was still busy out, reminding her of Kharbranth, with its midnight markets. That made sense. Neither sun nor moon could penetrate to these halls; it was easy to lose track of time. Beyond that, while most people had been put immediately to work, many of the soldiers had free time without plateau runs to do any longer.
Shallan asked around, and managed to get pointed toward All’s Alley. “The Stormlight made me sober,” she said to Pattern, who had crawled up her coat and now dimpled her collar, folded over the top.
“Healed you of poison.”
“That will be useful.”
“Mmmm. I thought you’d be angry. You drank the poison on purpose, didn’t you?”
“Yes, but the point wasn’t to get drunk.”
He buzzed in confusion. “Then why drink it?”
“It’s complicated,” Shallan said. She sighed. “I didn’t do a very good job in there.”
“Of getting drunk? Mmm. You gave it a good effort.”
“As soon as I got drunk, as soon as I lost control, Veil slipped away from me.”
“Veil is just a face.”
No. Veil was a woman who didn’t giggle when she got drunk, or whine, fanning her mouth when the drink was too hard for her. She never acted like a silly teenager. Veil hadn’t been sheltered, practically locked away, until she went crazy and murdered her own family.
Shallan stopped in place, suddenly frantic. “My brothers. Pattern, I didn’t kill them, right?”
“What?” he said.
“I talked to Balat over spanreed,” Shallan said, hand to her forehead. “But… I had Lightweaving then… even if I didn’t fully know it. I could have fabricated that. Every message from him. My own memories…”
“Shallan,” Pattern said, sounding concerned. “No. They live. Your brothers live. Mraize said he rescued them. They are on their way here. This isn’t the lie.” His voice grew smaller. “Can’t you tell?”
She adopted Veil again, her pain fading. “Yes. Of course I can tell.” She started forward again.
“Shallan,” Pattern said. “This is… mmm… there is something wrong with these lies you place upon yourself. I don’t understand it.”
“I just need to go deeper,” she whispered. “I can’t be Veil only on the surface.”
Pattern buzzed with a soft, anxious vibration—fast paced, high pitched. Veil hushed him as she reached All’s Alley. A strange name for a tavern, but she had seen stranger. It wasn’t an alley at all, but a big set of five tents sewn together, each a different color. It glowed dimly from within.
A bouncer stood out front, short and squat, with a scar running up his cheek, across his forehead, and onto his scalp. He gave Veil a critical looking-over, but didn’t stop her as she sauntered—full of confidence— into the tent. It smelled worse than the other pub, with all these drunken people crammed together. The tents had been sewn to create partitioned-off areas, darkened nooks—and a few had tables and chairs instead of boxes. The people who sat at them didn’t wear the simple clothing of workers, but instead leathers, rags, or unbuttoned military coats.
Both richer than the other tavern, Veil thought, and lower at the same time.
She rambled through the room, which—despite oil lamps on some tables—was quite dim. The “bar” was a plank set across some boxes, but they’d draped a cloth over the middle. A few people waited for drinks; Veil ignored them. “What’s the strongest thing you’ve got?” she asked the barkeep, a fat man in a takama. She thought he might be lighteyed. It was too dim to tell for certain.
He looked her over. “Veden saph, single barrel.”
“Right,” Veil said dryly. “If I wanted water, I’d go to the well. Surely you’ve got something stronger.”
The barkeep grunted, then reached behind himself and took out a jug of something clear, with no label. “Horneater white,” he said, thumping it down on the table. “I have no idea what they ferment to make the stuff, but it takes paint off real nicely.”
“Perfect,” Veil said, clacking a few spheres onto the improvised counter. The others in line had been shooting her glares for ignoring the line, but at this their expressions turned to amusement.
The barkeep poured Veil a very small cup of the stuff and set it before her. She downed it in one gulp. Shallan trembled inside at the burning that followed—the immediate warmth to her cheeks and almost instant sense of nausea, accompanied by a tremor through her muscles as she tried to resist throwing up.
Veil was expecting all this. She held her breath to stifle the nausea, and relished the sensations. No worse than the pains already inside, she thought, warmth radiating through her.
“Great,” she said. “Leave the jug.”
Those idiots beside the bar continued to gawk as she poured another cup of the Horneater white and downed it, feeling its warmth. She turned to inspect the tent’s occupants. Who to approach first? Aladar’s scribes had checked watch records for anyone else killed the same way as Sadeas, and they’d come up empty—but a killing in an alleyway might not get reported. She hoped that the people here would know of it regardless.
She poured some more of that Horneater drink. Though it was even fouler-tasting than the Veden saph, she found something strangely appealing about it. She downed the third cup, but drew in a tiny bit of Stormlight from a sphere in her pouch—just a smidge that instantly burned away and didn’t make her glow—to heal herself.
“What are you looking at?” she said, eyeing the people in line at the bar.
They turned away as the bartender moved to put a stopper on the jug. Veil put her hand on top of it. “I’m not done with that yet.”
“You are,” the bartender said, brushing her hand away. “One of two things is going to happen if you continue like that. You’ll either puke all over my bar, or you’ll drop dead. You’re not a Horneater; this will kill you.”
“That’s my problem.”
“The mess is mine,” the barkeep said, yanking the jug back. “I’ve seen your type, with that haunted look. You’ll get yourself drunk, then pick a fight. I don’t care what it is you want to forget; go find some other place to do it.”
Veil cocked an eyebrow. Getting kicked out of the most disreputable bar in the market? Well, at least her reputation wouldn’t suffer here.
She caught the barkeep’s arm as he pulled it back. “I’m not here to tear your bar down, friend,” she said softly. “I’m here about a murder. Someone who was killed here a few days back.”
The barkeep froze. “Who are you? You with the guard?”
“Damnation, no!” Veil said. Story. I need a cover story. “I’m hunting the man who killed my little sister.”
“And that has to do with my bar how?”
“I’ve heard rumors of a body found near here.”
“A grown woman,” the barkeep said. “So not your sister.”
“My sister didn’t die here,” Veil said. “She died back in the warcamps; I’m just hunting the one who did it.” She hung on as the barkeep tried to pull away again. “Listen. I’m not going to make trouble. I just need information. I hear there were… unusual circumstances about this death. This rumored death. The man who killed my sister, he has something strange about him. He kills in the same way every time. Please.”
The barkeep met her eyes. Let him see, Veil thought. Let him see a woman with a hard edge, but wounds inside. A story reflected in her eyes—a narrative she needed this man to believe.
“The one who did it,” the barkeep said softly, “has already been dealt with.”
“I need to know if your murderer is the same one I’ve been hunting,” Veil said. “I need details of the killing, however gruesome they may be.”
“I can’t say anything,” the barkeep whispered, but he nodded toward one of the alcoves made from the stitched-together tents, where shadows indicated some people were drinking. “They might.”
“Who are they?”
“Just your everyday, ordinary thugs,” the barkeep said. “But they’re the ones I pay to keep my bar out of trouble. If someone had disturbed this establishment in a way that risked the authorities shutting the place down— as that Aladar is so fond of doing—those are the people who would have taken care of said problem. I won’t say more.”
Veil nodded in thanks, but didn’t let go of his arm. She tapped her cup and cocked her head hopefully. The barkeep sighed and gave her one more hit of the Horneater white, which she paid for, then sipped as she walked away.
The alcove he’d indicated held a single table full of a variety of ruffians. The men wore the clothing of the Alethi upper crust: jackets and stiff uniform-style trousers, belts and buttoned shirts. Here, their jackets were undone, their shirts loose. Two of the women even wore the havah, though another was in trousers and a jacket, not too different from what Veil wore. The whole group reminded her of Tyn in the way they lounged in an almost deliberate way. It took effort to look so indifferent.
There was an unoccupied seat, so Veil strolled right in and took it. The lighteyed woman across from her hushed a jabbering man by touching his lips. She wore the havah, but without a safehand sleeve—instead, she wore a glove with the fingers brazenly cut off at the knuckles.
“That’s Ur’s seat,” the woman said to Veil. “When he gets back from the pisser, you’d best have moved on.”
“Then I’ll be quick,” Veil said, downing the rest of her drink, savoring the warmth. “A woman was found dead here. I think the murderer might have also killed someone dear to me. I’ve been told the murderer was ‘dealt with,’ but I need to know for myself.”
“Hey,” said a foppish man wearing a blue jacket, with slits in the outer layer to show yellow underneath. “You’re the one that was drinking the Horneater white. Old Sullik only keeps that jug as a joke.”
The woman in the havah laced her fingers before herself, inspecting Veil.
“Look,” Veil said, “just tell me what the information will cost me.”
“One can’t buy,” the woman said, “what isn’t for sale.”
“Everything is for sale,” Veil said, “if you ask the right way.”
“Which you’re not doing.”
“Look,” Veil said, trying to catch the woman’s eyes. “Listen. My kid sister, she—”
A hand fell on Shallan’s shoulder, and she looked up to find an enormous Horneater man standing behind her. Storms, he had to be nearly seven feet tall.
“This,” he said, drawing out the i sound to an e instead, “is my spot.” He pulled Veil off the chair, tossing her backward to roll on the ground, her cup tumbling away, her satchel twisting and getting wound up in her arms. She came to a rest, blinking as the large man sat on the chair. She felt she could hear its soul groaning in protest.
Veil growled, then stood up. She yanked off her satchel and dropped it, then removed a handkerchief and the knife from inside. This knife was narrow and pointed, long but thinner than the one on her belt.
She picked up her hat and dusted it off before replacing it and strolling back up to the table. Shallan disliked confrontation, but Veil loved it.
“Well, well,” she said, resting her safehand on the top of the large Horneater’s left hand, which was lying flat on the tabletop. She leaned down beside him. “You say it’s your place, but I don’t see it marked with your name.”
The Horneater stared at her, confused by the strangely intimate gesture of putting her safehand on his hand.
“Let me show you,” she said, removing her knife and placing the point onto the back of her hand, which was pressed against his.
“What is this?” he asked, sounding amused. “You put on an act, being tough? I have seen men pretend—”
Veil rammed the knife down through her hand, through his, and into the tabletop. The Horneater screamed, whipping his hand upward, making Veil pull the knife out of both hands. The man toppled out of his chair as he scrambled away from her.
Veil settled down in it again. She took the cloth from her pocket and wrapped it around her bleeding hand. That would obscure the cut when she healed it.
Which she didn’t do at first. It would need to be seen bleeding. Instead—a part of her surprised at how calm she remained—she retrieved her knife, which had fallen beside the table.
“You’re crazy!” the Horneater said, recovering his feet, holding his bleeding hand. “You’re ana’ kai crazy.”
“Oh wait,” Veil said, tapping the table with her knife. “Look, I see your mark here, in blood. Ur’s seat. I was wrong.” She frowned. “But mine’s here too. Suppose you can sit in my lap, if you want.”
“I’ll throttle you!” Ur said, shooting a glare at the people in the main room of the tent, who had crowded around the entrance to this smaller room, whispering. “I’ll—”
“Quiet, Ur,” the woman in the havah said. He sputtered.
“But Betha!”
“You think,” the woman said to Veil, “assaulting my friends is going to make me more likely to talk?”
“Honestly, I just wanted the seat back.” Veil shrugged, scratching at the tabletop with her knife. “But if you want me to start hurting people, I suppose I could do that.”
“You really are crazy,” Betha said.
“No. I just don’t consider your little group a threat.” She continued scratching. “I’ve tried being nice, and my patience is running thin. It’s time to tell me what I want to know before this turns ugly.”
Betha frowned, then glanced at what Veil had scratched into the tabletop. Three interlocking diamonds.
The symbol of the Ghostbloods.
Veil gambled that the woman would know what it meant. They seemed the type who would—small-time thugs, yes, but ones with a presence in an important market. Veil wasn’t certain how secretive Mraize and his people were with their symbol, but the fact that they got it tattooed on their bodies indicated to her that it wasn’t supposed to be terribly secret. More a warning, like cremlings who displayed red claws to indicate they were poisonous.
Indeed, the moment Betha saw the symbol, she gasped softly. “We… we want nothing to do with your type,” Betha said. One of the men at the table stood up, trembling, and looked from side to side, as if expecting assassins to tackle him right then.
Wow, Veil thought. Even cutting the hand of one of their members hadn’t provoked this strong a reaction.
Curiously though, one of the other women at the table—a short, younger woman wearing a havah—leaned forward, interested.
“The murderer,” Veil said. “What happened to him?”
“We had Ur drop him off the plateau outside,” Betha said. “But… how could this be a man you would be interested in? It was just Ned.”
“Ned?”
“Drunk, from Sadeas’s camp,” said one of the men. “Angry drunk; always got into trouble.”
“Killed his wife,” Betha said. “Pity too, after she followed him all the way out here. Guess none of us had much choice, with that crazy storm. But still…”
“And this Ned,” Veil said, “murdered his wife with a knife through the eye?”
“What? No, he strangled her. Poor bastard.”
Strangled? “That’s it?” Veil said. “No knife wounds?”
Betha shook her head, seeming confused.
Stormfather, Veil thought. So it was a dead end? “But I heard that the murder was strange.”
“No,” the standing man said, then settled back down beside Betha, knife out. He set it on the table, in front of them. “We knew Ned would go too far at some point. Everyone did. I don’t think any of us was surprised when, after she tried to drag him away from the tavern that night, he finally went over the edge.”
Literally, Shallan thought. At least once Ur got hold of him.
“It appears,” Veil said, standing up, “that I have wasted your time. I will leave spheres with the barkeep; your tab is my debt, tonight.” She spared a glance for Ur, who hunched nearby and regarded her with a sullen expression. She waved her bloodied fingers at him, then made her way back toward the main tent room of the tavern.
She hovered just inside it, contemplating her next move. Her hand throbbed, but she ignored it. Dead end. Perhaps she’d been foolish to think she could solve in a few hours what Adolin had spent weeks trying to crack.
“Oh, don’t look so sullen, Ur,” Betha said from behind, voice drifting out of the tent alcove. “At least it was just your hand. Considering who that was, it could have been a lot worse.”
“But why was she so interested in Ned?” Ur said. “Is she going to come back because I killed him?”
“She wasn’t after him,” one of the other women snapped. “Didn’t you listen? Ain’t nobody that cares Ned killed poor Rem.” She paused. “Course, it could have been about the other woman he killed.”
Veil felt a shock run through her. She spun, striding back into the alcove. Ur whimpered, hunching down and holding his wounded hand.
“There was another murder?” Veil demanded.
“I…” Betha licked her lips. “I was going to tell you, but you left so fast that—”
“Just talk.”
“We’d have let the watch take care of Ned, but he couldn’t leave it at killing just poor Rem.”
“He killed another person?”
Betha nodded. “One of the barmaids here. That we couldn’t let pass. We protect this place, you see. So Ur had to take a long walk with Ned.”
The man with the knife rubbed his chin. “Strangest thing, that he’d come back and kill a barmaid the next night. Left her body right around the corner from where he killed poor Rem.”
“He screamed the whole time we were taking him to his fall that he hadn’t killed the second one,” Ur muttered.
“He did,” Betha said. “That barmaid was strangled the exact same way as Rem, body dropped in the same position. Even had the marks of his ring scraping her chin like Rem did.” Her light brown eyes had a hollow cast to them, like she was staring at the body again, as it had been found. “Exact same marks. Uncanny.”
Another double murder, Veil thought. Storms. What does it mean?
Veil felt dazed, though she didn’t know if it was from drink or the unwelcome image of the strangled women. She went and gave the barkeep some spheres—probably too many—and hooked the jug of Horneater white with her thumb, then carted it out with her into the night.
Oathbringer: The Stormlight Archive Book 3 copyright © 2017 Dragonsteel Entertainment, LLC
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!
Yay chapters, … brb I have nose in book
yayya
Been waiting for this……..
HOLY COW I DID NOT EXPECT THE END OF SHSHSHSH
Oh, wow, so many new things to talk about. I’m glad Navani cares about sewer systems. :) Historical sanitation systems are super fascinating.
And Dalinar remembered his wife’s name! And we can finally stop calling her Shshsh, fortunately. And we can talk about how she and her brother (a new uncle!) seem to have stolen shardplate to use as a dowry. I wonder how they carted it all the way from Rira. :)
But now he remembers, though we don’t know exactly how and how much.. And a few chapters ago, the Stormfather seemed to equate Dalinar’s lost memories of his wife with the memories of the Recreance, as both best forgotten.. That might not be good.
Then there’s Kaladin, who is attempting to adopt more people. :) I hope he can help them become self-sufficient and let them stand up for themselves. We also learn a bit more about both his past, and that of the parshmen. Both are extremely depressing. :(
…and Shallan, whose lies are catching up on her. I’m really worried by the fact that she now seems to be afraid she’s lied to herself about everything in her past, aka ‘are her brothers really alive’. I didn’t think I would ever say this, but I’m glad we got Nan Balat’s viewpoint in Way of Kings. It’s good to have outside confirmation of this (by someone who isn’t a Ghostblood, who seem to be really feared around the warcamps).
If she stops being able to tell the difference between things ‘she doesn’t think about’, lies, and the truth.. Well, I don’t know what will happen, but it seems like a really bad path for a Lightweaver to go down.
So it’s not that someone is copying Adolin, it’s that someone (or someTHING) is copying murder in general.
An Unmade?!
Have been sat here all day refreshing, looks like it’s 9am EST it gets released. TIL! So excited.
So most likely some spren or magic of Urithiru is causing the double murders. They are too precisely similar to be a copycat- the chin marks on the barmaid?
Therefore, after Adolin killed Sadeas, no one killed that other man
These chapter previews are doing less and less to sate me, I need the book or longer chapters
I’m moving today so I won’t get a chance to read this until tonight. That means no spoilers, Cole.
Well. Evi’s name is finally revealed! Whatever is happening to Dalinar? Could his bond with the Stormfather be erasing his boon/curse from the Nightwatcher? And why, WHY does he just leave the honorblade lying around? Hasn’t he even TRIED to dismiss it? We know Szeth could…
Yay, Kaladin trying to lead the freed Parshmen! And Voidspren confirmed. That’s… ominous.
Love that Stormlight can heal drunkenness. And the hand stabbing bit was brilliant. Good job, Veil/Shallan! Also, the “copycat killer” must be an Unmade. I can’t think of anything else that could fit.
Favourite time of the week.
I totally missed that Dalinar had heard his wife’s name the first time that I read the sentence.
Dalinar is also using adhesion now.
The Stormfather is frustrating though, he’s just a large shard of RAFO.
Feeling better about Adolin, if Pattern likes him, that’s a good sign. This about the Parshmen complicates things: they’re not just enemies you can kill. Sounds like Kaladin might be busy with them for a while.
Ah, so it’s not a question of someone murdering the other guy the same way Sadeas was, it’s of every murder having a double. Creepy. Probably has something to do with the Odium/Unmade/Voidspren stuff floating about.
Also, about Dalinar’s wife, I was under the impression we had confirmation that she was the Herald Shalash, who we meet in an interlude going around destroying art and statues with her face in it.
Dalinar has a watch! Does he get to say “just a sec” now? ;)
@16 nordithen What??? I’ve never heard that one before, have you got WOB on that?
@15 What? Where did THAT come from? I’ve never seen a WoB regarding that, or confirmation in the text. Pretty sure that isn’t the case, as his wife was from Rira, and has a brother.
I’m rather unsettled by all the masks Shallan’s been hiding behind lately…although I’d love to see what would happen if Kaladin met Veil.
First time commenter, long time reader.
I just finished chapter sixteen and holy smokes! I had to read “Yes, the Iriali claim their sister nation as a vassal, but even if the claim weren’t disputed, the queen doesn’t have any actual relation to Evi or her brother.” from Navani three times! I thought, “nooo, that’s not Dalinar’s wife’s name? Is it?” But sure enough! Wow! I was hoping this would happen soon, but I didn’t expect it this soon!
@15
I think you were confusing Shalash with Shshshshsh. We’ve been calling Dalinar’s ex shshsshsh because we didn’t know her name. It’s always been referenced in the text like that. Interlocking whispers or something like that. Shalash is a totally different person than the woman who we now know is named Evi.
@19 So is Pattern it appears. Oh well it looks like this is Shallan’s book to learn to listen to what her spren is saying before she breaks him.
I liked Pattern’s disappointment that he couldn’t marry Adolin.
@16 Funny thing…”Just a sec” didn’t bother me at all but somehow Dalinar wearing a wrist-watch was disconcerting.
If that spren is an Odium-spren then I think that Kaladin is now on a deadline as I don’t think there is going to be as much he can do once they get wherever the Odium-spren is leading them. Perhaps I’m wrong…it just seems a little forboding
When will our Radients learn to start heeding warnings put forth by their spren? Kaladin ignored Syl’s warnings the same way and nearly killed her. Shallan has such a tricky Order though. Her entire Order deals with lies and truth. It cannot be easy to keep them in balance, especially if you’ve come to rely on lies like a crutch. She feels lies literally keep her sane, but her Order requires her to know herself better, to be more true to herself than any other. For someone who deals in lies, self-delusion is like the worst thing that could happen, both for herself and her bond. If she keeps believing her own lies then she won’t know when she has crossed the line.
Perfect timing – I thought I’d miss this one due to some work travel, but as it stands, I’m at the airport waiting :)
I definitely appreciation the bit of an infodump regarding blades, spren, honor blades, etc. There’s a lot of lore I didn’t quite realize until I started reading online discussions and I imagine most casual readers feel the same way.
Woo, Adonalsium name drop!
Honestly, being Odium sounds like it really sucks; unchanging rage and limitless time seems like a drag. But at any rate, the conflict is seeming kind of Wheel of Time-y – the good side can’t really win, they can just push back the turning of the wheel another cycle. I’m assuming that at some point (given the eventual crossover) there will be a more decisive battle against Odium from more external forces more qualified to fight him.
He’d never known anyone to get as excited by sewage as Navani Kholin. – bwahaha.
But very interesting that the Honorblade would basically give him access to another Radiant set of powers. I definitely want to know more about how those work.
I really like that Dalinar isn’t willing to use an unfair advantage of his fight. I have to admit, like Navani, I don’t quite get the appeal here (omg I nearly spit my coffee out at “Seeing that in his spare time, her husband likes to roll around on the floor with half-naked, sweaty men”) but I can appreciate the satisfaction in just straightforward physical exertion (actually, especially as one of my sons really needs that kind of ‘heavy play’ to regulate himself I try to be more cognizant of it).
I find the religious debate to be really interesting as it’s a thing that hits home for me as somebody that tries to be a serious person of faith and that is always a balance between questioning, exploring as well as accepting your own limitations/hubris and when approrpiate, relying on the wisdom of others, in determining which traditions are valuable and not to be discharded at the whims of society, and which ones can/should evolve. I could see a story where this could go both ways – I think for the most part we know Dalinar is right, but it’s not unreasonable that in another story Kadash could be right in that it’s all a deception/plot. Plus, added that we don’t really know that the so called ‘Voidbringers’ really are uniformly on the side of Odium and share his motives.
Ooooh does the Stormlight somehow interfere with the curse/boon???? I wonder if this lends credence to the theory that Lift started to ‘change’ when she became a Radiant. Hmmmmmm…
Kaladin chapter – oh yes, I want to see Kaladin recognize the kinship he has with them as runaway slaves.
Shallan chapter –
I am finding this set very amusing. Shallan’s suggestion that Pattern marry Adolin (and his wondering if it was an option) is cracking me up.
On a more serious note – do all Lightweavers have the same complicated love/hate relationship with their spren and the truths they have to utter? And even Pattern is worried about the extent to which she throws herself into her illusions…
Oh good God, Shallan trying to drink is also hysterical. That said, she’s going to get alcohol poisoning :/ But…uh, yeah the mixed feelings over being approached by strange guys while on your own (sometimes flattering, sometimes annoying) but at least Adolin is a better knuckle cracker :)
Oooh oooh stabbing!
Ooh, the ability to heal oneself of drunkenness sounds pretty useful – I was worrying things were going to take a more sinister turn, but hopefully Jor was genuine.
All that said I think this chapter was a really interesting look into her head and what she is still trying to avoid dealing with.
Oh mannnn Shallan has gone a bit off the deep end! Healing power or no, no way I could just stab my own hand. And a very, very interesting twist on the ‘double’ murders. So is there something more supernatural going on?
Never commented before, but have been reading diligently every week. I’ve been wondering where Zahel is every week so far, and having Adolin mention him by name twice last week was super exciting for me (if you can’t tell, he’s my favourite character). Really happy to see him get some dialogue in this week with Dalinar! Ever his charming self, while still ultimately giving good advice. Never change, Zahel… :)
Ooooh. My. Word. Lots of revelations today.
Ch. 16: So the Honorblades are bits of Honor’s soul. I hadn’t figured this out, though I feel I should have because it makes perfect sense. It also makes the Heralds’ oathbreaking worse: Not only did they abandon Taln, they literally abandoned their god. Somehow, the fact that Honor isn’t actually a god makes that worse. Not sure why. On the matter of the champion: I now think I can see why there’s going to be a time skip. I had thought maybe the Heralds would reassemble and return to their torture to buy Roshar time, but that had the problem of them needing to leave after the Desolation, since just their departure doesn’t end it. Now I think that finding and fighting the champion will be the way the new Radiants buy time.
I am really liking Rial and his not quite insubordination. I’m guessing it was his backtalk that got him sent to the bridge crews. Navani’s gift of a fabrial watch / pain-reliever is both sweet and practical, and I’m certain it’s going to be important at some point. I’m glad to see the return of Zahel, my second-favorite grump. And I love how Dalinar is combining theology and politics with fighting practice. It’s just so. . .him. I suppose it’s not surprising that someone would side with the Voidbringers, especially in a country that didn’t have even the distorted history contained in Vorinism as a major cultural touchstone. Poor Adolin can’t catch a break, it seems; in addition to his horse’s death, his relationship building, and investigating a murder he committed, he now has a queen out for his Plate.
And then he hears Evi’s name. 8-0.
Ch.17: Kaladin in this chapter is at his best. Trying to care for people who have no reason to trust him. Acknowledging that his own suffering isn’t the worst in the world, and using the empathy of it to relate to what he had every reason to believe were the enemies of mankind. Teaching them to play cards, and to make a fire from wet wood. Also, the Parsh-girl picking flowers is just too cute. I’m not sure if the yellow spren is confirmed as Voidspren or if that’s just what Syl suspects, though.
Ch. 18: Shallan continues to be impressive, sometimes accidentally. I love her discussions with Pattern more than ever. Pattern’s acceptance of the Physical Realm way of doing things is interesting, and I like how he approves of Adolin. These two go from funny to heartbreaking very easily. Shallan pleading with him not to die and leave her is touching. Her performance as Veil is an astonishing mixture of careful planning gone wrong and daring improvisation. I really like this–it’s realistic that her atttempt to come across as a hardened woman of the streets wouldn’t go off without a hitch, but the way she recovers from her first bad impression accidentally and plays it off as if she’d been doing the over-her-head-drunk-girl thing on purpose is great. I also like how she notes that Adolin beats Jor at knuckle-cracking. It seems, though, that Shallan is bleeding through Veil, from the comments both bartenders made. I wonder if the curious woman in the group will show up later.
And now we know there is definetly something uncanny about the murders, beyond what Ialai or any mundane copycat killer could arrange. This being Roshar, that doesn’t narrow down the suspects very much.
Well it looks like I was right that Shallan is heading for a dissociative identity disorder (even though I didn’t know the name). Since she was burring her memories before and didn’t kill pattern I can hope it won’t this time as well, but it will still keep her from progressing at all. The fact that her pain is so evident that random strangers can see it in her eyes is scary.
Kaladin chapter very interesting. He really is built for protection and leadership.
Dalinar, I feel we are at the tip of the iceberg with the religious conflict. I wonder if Adolin knows he’s high prince (or will be shortly). I bet not.
@17 @18 @21, The guy who does the audiobooks has to know what voices to give the characters, so that gets checked with Sanderson himself. And Dalinar’s wife is given the same voice as the woman who’s been going around vandalizing art with her face in it – the Herald Shalash.
My guess (based on almost nothing) is that the second murders are somehow an effect of an imprisoned Unmade somewhere in the bowels of Urithiru.
I loved these chapters. I too was not expecting to figure out Evi’s name this early. I thought it was going to have to be through a flashback.
Here is a thought on the Boon/curse: perhaps the stormlight can “heal” the effects of the boon and curse as well. If we look at Lift (who many have theorized in the Edgedancer re-read has a boon of never changing) is now starting to change since she’s been using stormlight. And again, with Dalinar, he uses stormlight and is now finding his memory healing. That raises many interesting questions about what exactly the boon and curse are, and how stormlight could heal it.
I love the different take BS is taking on the voidbringers. We have confirmation the group is being led by a voidspreen, but the parshmen have simply been healed and are not yet the traditional “voidbringers”. The anger is there though, so it wouldn’t be difficult to see the progression to that point.
Finally, I love that Shallan can just go in, not have any idea what’s shes doing or getting into, but because she’s wearing a different face, and because of stormlight, she’s able to look like she fits in that world. My favorite part was when the stormlight healed her from the original drunkenness and it made it look like she played the bouncer. Nicely done.
Thanks again Tor and Brandon for releasing the chapters. I’m loving this book so far and getting really hyped for the release. (Which I understand is the whole point but nothing wrong with everyone coming away happy :))
Someone mimicking murder…how is this relevent to whats happening to Roshar…? A new antagonist is in the works…some one who has bonded with a voidspren, and is practicing new found abilities, is my current theory. Anyone else have a thought…?
Another good set of chapters. We finally see Dalinar use Adhesion! And he can hear his wife’s name now? No more having to use Shshshsh anymore; we can refer to her as Evi now.
Kaladin’s chapter was somewhat informative and confirmed that what we saw last time was a Voidspren. What will the Voidspren do now that Kaladin is trying to train the Parshmen?
Veil’s return. At first, this started out a little slowly, but we actually learned a decent amount this chapter. Roshar has hard liquor! And Shallan/Veil was not ready! But Stormlight counteracts being drunk, which I’m sure will continue to be useful. I guess it’s like Wolverine’s healing factor, but even more immediate? Also, I’m starting to really get worried about Shallan here. She’s starting to lose herself in her constructs, she can’t remember whether she really spoke with her brothers or made it all up, and now she’s stabbing herself in the hand to get information? She seems to be losing her grip more and more; I hope something shocks her enough to help her pull back.
Oh, and Pattern would totally marry Adolin
I just put up my notebook and was ready to go about my day when a thought hit me. What if Dalinar’s memory recovering has something to do with Elhokar making him Highprince of Urithiru? What if the boon he demanded had something to do with not usurping his brother or his line, and now that he’s been placed above the king in some ways, the curse is also fading?
I like that a Void spren is involved with the multiple murders, either through possession or some other nefarious means. I can’t remember the exact timeline, but I’m sure the copy-cat murder of Sadeas happened after the Everstorm came.
At the same time, the Everstorm hadn’t come at the time when Sadeas was killed. How would it then have known of the murder to duplicate it? From someone it had possessed? Can spren even possess someone? That seems like it might violate some of the spiritual rules Brandon has established. Thoughts anyone?
@32 But we haven’t seen/heard Dalinar’s first wife on stage, have we?
@37 There were Dalinar flashback chapters, which featured Evi, in Unfettered 2. Michael Kramer did the narration for those. I read them, but haven’t listened. So it is possible he used the same voice for both Evi and Shalash. But I still say that’s coincidence. There are only so many voices an actor can do.
@30 Nordithen. I wasn’t aware Evi had showed up in the book before, let alone that she had any lines that we could use to see if her voice matches Shallash. Could you point out where you made this comparison?
Besides that, while the narrators are great and do their best to give everyone a unique voice, there is always going to be a bit of overlap, and some voices will sound similar. There have also been some cases of characters suddenly gaining a completely new voice/accent between books or even between chapters. :) So unless the narrators or Brandon Sanderson specifically say they’re the same, I don’t think a similar sound is 100% proof.
EDIT: Dendrophobe just pointed out there was indeed an audiobook for Unfettered II, in which Evi could have spoken lines. However, a male narrator is always going to have a limited amount of female voices he can do that don’t sound too unnatural.
Found a little mistake:
That first Dalinar should probably read “Navani”
@40 Pretty sure the “I’ll await you in the writing chamber” was Navani’s response. It just wasn’t moved to a new paragraph in this preview.
She was the one asking Dalinar about moving up the time, and then he replied that he was fine with it.
@36
I’m not convinced about the connection between the murders and Everstorm / Voidsprens. For one, neither Everstorm nor Hightstorm reaches Urithiru.
Also there is something mechanical and unemotional about these copycat murders. I wonder how the second victim is connected. Pure chance?
Theory time! I love the idea that stormlight can heal the Nightwatcher’s boons & curses. The Thrill is brought on by another Spren similar to the Nightwatcher. So going along the same lines as the boon/curse fading, what if as Dalinar has developed more and more into a Bondsmith he can no longer feel the Thrill? The Spren that controls that has no power to influence him anymore. That would go along nicely with his curse being removed (but what was the boon…?) and go hand-in-hand with Lyft changing as well.
Another theory (that I have arguably less proof for) is what if a bondSMITH is where shardplate comes from? Maybe I’m just over-thinking the name, and maybe our Radiants simply haven’t said enough oaths, but bear with me. Spren can become a weapon of the Radiant’s choosing, but the sword and the plate are separate items. I doubt a spren could “split” themselves like that. Besides, we’ve seen Kaladin wield a shard plate helmet and not endure any kind of screaming that accompanies a dead blade. Not to mention that we’ve never seen a shard blade break but plate does? Kinda suspicious, unless you realize that the plate isn’t a spren at all. We already know that when Dalinar is using his powers that he draws the powers of others out to a greater degree (think Shallan with her 3D map). So what if Dalinar and another radiant can combine their stormlight in a way to make a custom set of plate armor for that radiant? Dalinar doesn’t get a sword (as the Stormfather won’t be controlled like that), so it only makes sense that he gets something cool, right? Maybe in the past a budding radiant had to go to one of the three bondsmiths and commission a set of plate before they were accepted as a “full radiant”.
Quick correction to my earlier post @43. I stated that Dalinar’s curse of not knowing his wife was removed, but we don’t actually know what his boon/curse was. Perhaps his boon was to forget that one moment in his wife’s life and the curse was to forget everything about her, or perhaps his boon was to forget everything about his wife. We just don’t know yet. That is all.
@42 I was under the same impression as you when the first copy-cat murder happened. It’s Sadeas’ wife, Sons of Honor, or the Ghostbloods, or something/someone natural vs supernatural that was taking advantage of the situation.
Could it be a serial killer who’s taking advantage of murders and copying them? Could be. But with these level of details, and the narrative of the book…I am now leaning towards supernatural. The level of detail involved would require a person being around each murder and being able to inspect the bodies closely. We haven’t seen evidence of that possibility yet.
A more likely explanation in this case is that there is some kind of spren/Odium influence that is causing it:
1. Urithiru was abandoned for a reason. It could have been because when the Knights were gone, no one could get there. But it could also be because there is something now wrong with the place.
2. Shallan keeps feeling like there is something wrong with the place. Obsessing over it really. That does not bode well.
3. How great for the story would it be if the KR and Co. couldn’t stay there because Odium had control. That would mean they wouldn’t have a base of operations out of reach of the Everstorm.
I am now thinking something more is going on than political intrigue or a serial killer.
Comments on Chapters 16-18
We have our first scene with what Dalinar believes is one of his aces in the hole: an Honorblade.
We have confirmation that a KR has to advance a certain level to get Shardplate. I wonder if it is the same level of advancement for each Order (i.e. one of the Oaths). For Lightweavers, I suppose it would be a certain number of Truths. Query: do all Lightweavers speak the same number of Truths to advance completely? I could see a situation where one potential Lightweaver might have need for less number of Truths than does another Lightweaver.
Also, I believe the first on page reference to Adonalsium in SA (at least by in the presence of a non Worldhopper). If I were Dalinar, I would have asked the Stormfather what he meant by Adonalsium. I cannot imagine he is familiar with that term. Also, when did Dalinar learn that Odium was the ultimate antagonist? I do not recall him being told of Odium before (although I could be wrong about Dalinar’s lack of prior knowledge of Odium).
How funny. After many posts discussing the appropriateness of Shallan’s use of the phrase “just a sec.” the next chapter mentions that clocks on Roshar have second hand as a throw-away line. It was as if Brandon knew that the readers would obsess with Shallan’s use of the word second and then immediately thereafter renders the entire discussion moot.
I would like to have a POV where we could know Zahel’s true thoughts about the Everstorm, the fight against the Voidbringers and what he thinks about Urithiru. Also, I wonder if Zahel knows about Odium and what his thoughts are on a potential battle against Odium’s forces.
We also learn the first name of General Khal’s tow oldest sons. We also learn that General Khal has at least 3 sons.
Wow. We just hear Shshsh’s name (Evi) and Dalinar’s mind not transfer it to Shshsh? I wonder if Dalinar Investuring and taking on the Nahel Bond effected the boon/curse? It must
Kaladin is slowly but surely starting to earn the trust of these Parshmen. That will go a long way to helping him with his end game. Much better than brandishing his Sylblade.
I think Shallan’s next truth will somehow involve Adolin’s murder of Sadeas. I am not sure in what way – I just have this gut feeling. I do not think it will be as simple as her having to publicly reveal that Adolin killed Sadeas (I do not imply that such action would be simple – only that from a story telling perspective, it could be a straight forward story line. I think it will be something more convoluted. No textual support. Just my gut feeling.
Shallan’s creating different persona’s and referring to them in the third person is troubling. It seems like a way of shutting down when the central person – Shallan – does not want to confront something. One Shallan’s truths will be that each of these different personas (Veil, Brightness Radiant) are Shallan, just with a different public persona. But at the core, still Shallan. Shallan has to acknowledge that all her different personas are just an illusion she creates. There is not a separate person behind those personas: just Shallan.
If Stormlight can cure one from getting drunk, then maybe Shallan might be able to someday challenge Rock in a drinking game. Although the volume of liquid needed might make her too full to challenge Rock. Stormlight can get rid of the drunken stupor. I wonder if it can prevent your bladder from filling up quickly. That is almost as bad a problem as getting drunk.
Shallan has to learn the lesson that Kaladin seemed to have learned: think before you act. She is lighting a beacon for the Ghostbloods. Given her thoughts so far, I do not think that was her intention. One of these days, her actions are going to write a check she cannot cash. Just because she is a KR does not mean she cannot be killed. Especially by those who know she is a KR.
Ok – maybe Shallan is a bit smarter than I initially thought. The above paragraph (about her attracting the Ghoostblood’s attention) was written just after she stabbed the Horneater and he knocked her down. I had yet to read where she made the mark of the Ghostblood symbol. For her sake, I hope Veil is still a member in good standing with the Ghostbloods. I have no doubt that the Ghostbloods will learn of Veil’s excursion this night. Especially her carving the Ghostblood mark in the table.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@43 That’s a great point. Perhaps it’s less of a “healing” phenomenon as I was saying, but its about bonding. Dalinar created a bond with the Nightwatcher and the Thrill, not a full Nahel bond but a connection. However, once a true Nahel bond is formed the other connections to spren are severed.
Also, I love the idea of Dalinar being the one to make the shardplate in connection with the other radiant. That would be a really cool scene to read. That would make an interesting poll to vote on:
1: Shardplate comes from lesser spren forming the plate
2: Dalinar will be the master Shardplate forger
3. Other
OMG – all that argument over seconds and now Dalinar has a watch with a second hand on it!
I think the bit about Evi is tied to Kadesh somehow. Some irrevocable step was taken by Dalinar in regards to his relationship with Kadesh, and suddenly he can remember his wife?
Sounds like Shallan is killing people unknowingly again…..
I bet the betas were laughing themselves sick over the debate over the murders. It never even occurred to me they might be uncanny. Could it be one of the midnight essences or whatever they’re called?
I think the lack of living shardblades is sufficient explanation for Urithiru being abandoned. If the timing’s wrong, the reference to water might be a reason.
Shallan needs pleasant truths to ground her. All her Truths can’t be trauma-related, can they?
@46 AndrewHB. Wit asked Dalinar in the Way of Kings if he knew who/what Adonalsium was. Or at least he asked if Dalinar was familiar with the term. Though you are probably right in saying it was the first reference by an in-world character, unless I’ve forgotten something
In the same book, in the last vision Tanavast tells Dalinar he must unite/appoint a champion/fight against ‘him’. Then he says he was killed by Odium. I think the vision makes a pretty clear case for the enemy being called Odium, and that’s definitely what Dalinar assumed.
Tin foil hat theory time.
What if it’s not just the Parshendi/ Parshmen that can become voidbringers but also the Alethi? I mean they are a warlike, martial society, the only people on the planet that feel the thrill and Dalinar thinks something is very wrong with the thrill? These chapters are throwing even more doubt about what we know around. We have perfectly sane, scared, struggling to survive while remaining civil Parshmen while also finding out there is something very wrong with the Alethi people. Do we have this whole thing backwards or is this a the antichrist comes in peace type situation?
So it seems healing via stormlight is like healing with gold, in that it considers alcohol a poison to be removed.
Also Im agreed apon the murders are of a supernatural type, the question now is who, what and why, and is there any other connection between the people murdered in the same way.
My thoughts on the new chapter is no specific order:
– I am getting strong inklings the Honorblade will go to Elhokar.
– The Champion does not look like he is a mere human being.
– Navani likes sewer… This almost makes me like her.
– I don’t know what to think of Dalinar’s story arc. It has always been clear he would deal with unifying the world, the downfall with the Ardentia was predictable, but something is missing. There were so many sources of conflict waiting to happen after WoR and not a single one was explored.
– I am glad the name of his wife is out so we can speak it, but I thought him forgetting her could have been used as a conflict element with his sons. The fact the boys are constantly left in the dark does not sit particularly well with me. It seems an opportunity for an interesting conflict was missed here.
– I wonder what Dalinar will do… Will he give Adolin’s Plate back or will he argue his son has the right to carry it, being half-Riran?
– Where is the family conflict? Everything is just perfect with the Kholins: so many things could have gone wrong and… nothing is happening. It is almost frustrating.
– I don’t know what to think of Kaladin’s story arc. I find it very similar to his story arc in WoK where he had to win the trust of the bridgemen only to shape them into something. It feels the same now.
– I liked the insights on Kaladin’s time as a slave.
– I liked the insights on the Parshendis, but I really do not know where this story is going. It feels very disconnected from the other story arcs.
– What’s with the Voidspren?
– Pattern likes Adolin and thinks he is very smart.
– I love Pattern: my favorite spren, hands down.
– Shallan does think of Adolin: people argued last week she never does meaning she did not really care about him.
– Shallan is… well… I am not sure I am buying her prowess as a master dangerous spy. It seems she lacks, I dunno, experience to be this good?
– Pattern thinks something is odd with Shallan and Shallan fears her memories are lies she fabricated. Sad.
– The copycat murder was not targeting Adolin, therefore, not Ialai. It is not related to Sadeas having been killed. I am disappointed.
– NOTHING is happening with Sadeas’s murder. What an unexpected twist which I am not sure I am enjoying. It was a Red Herring. We speculated for four years on what may happen and the answer is NOTHING.
– I’ll have to keep on reading but I’ll admit the complete absence of conflict within the Kholin family following events at the end of WoR, combined with the absence of consequences for Sadeas being dead (I mean we are 20 chapters into the story now) is really leaving me a bit deflated.
Journey before destination, but it’s sickly hard when the destination is coming and you know that you have to wait for another journey. Can we have three chapters per week forever?
Valuables memories are always sad or happy. it’s human to try to forget the first one. Oh Dalinar, they hurt when they come home.
(sorry, i’m a frenchie who can’t wait)
What if those murders are just another kind of lightweaving on people dying or dead after a snapshot. Maybe an unknown, deep hide personality of brightness Shallan or another lightweaver. Or someone’s highlight them for a reason
The question is : can a radiant be evil or go wild?
I might just be dumb, but is there anything anywhere about having 2 shardblades?
@12 Did you even read the chapter?Dalinar isn’t bonded to the honor blade,he hides it in a sewer grate I think.
Anyways,Dalinar remembering his wife is huge and probably due to the stormlight he’s been ingesting unblocking his memories.I think the thrill might be Odium pushing himself out into the world.Should go spank those Iriali though,lol.
Shame Kaladin had a pretty short chapter,does that make them Parshendi though?
Veil is not a good personality for Shallan to pick up,and i’m surprised another Horneater is in the warcamps.
@59 Shaun. Yes, I read the chapter. I also know that honorblades are bonded by holding them. Since Dalinar knew what it was, he COULD use the blade to get Surges, and COULD dismiss it if he wanted to. There’s no week-long waiting period with honorblades. But yes, instead he chose to hide it…. In a toilet.
My thoughts on urithiru and the murders.
Urithiru is wrong. Something changed during the recreance. Shallan can’t draw certain places in urithiru, and dalinars memories are coming back. I didn’t think that is stormlight. There are murders taking place here, I don’t think this is strictly a void spren. The whole thing seems a lot bigger than it originally seemed.
I think urithiru itself sits partially in the cognitive realm. Another thought I have had is that the copy cat murders might be a policing effort by the city itself to keep murder from happening. Adolin kills someone, the city kills someone else. Sadeas warcamp, so it could be recognizing the bond between adolin and shallan. Or perhaps not.
@59 Shaun. When Rock tells Kaladin and Teft how he ended up in the bridge crews, didn’t he say that his leader came down with an entire entourage? When he lost to Sadeas they all ended up in the Highprince’s service. Since Horneaters apparently do this every so often, and none of their leaders have won a duel yet, there must be small groups of Horneaters hanging around the warcamps.
I’m getting all worried about Shallan. How am I supposed to wait another week? I’m pretty sure I got an ulcer just from reading about her alcohol consumption.
I think Dalinar healed his memory when he sucked in the storm loght to get the ardents attention, we never really see him experimenting with stormlight other then in the very end to heal wounds taken in the fighting on the shattered plains…. or maybe I’m just stretching
Just a quick thought on Pattern stating he really likes Adolin, think this could be due to pattern sensing Adolins’ ‘lies’ in that he’s investigating Sadeas’ murder while being responsible for it.
How about the new guard Rial? New and adopted into the bridgemen. So chances are this guy wasn’t there from the beginning…. a plant anyone? I hope this guy was properly vetted….but from past experience, probably not.
Radiant? A member of one of the many factions? Just some dude to give some humanity to the guards?
Edit: I read it wrong the first time. He says I’m new and “reborn in the bridge crews.” Maybe he has been there from the very beginning
RE: Another horneater in the camp. Rock was part of an entourage, all of them became part of Sadeas’ warcamp when Sadeas defeated Rock’s cousin. Clearly they are not the only ones.
Honor’s blade in the sewer in Chapter 16 is now Checkov’s gun on the mantle in act 1. How will it fire? My money is on stolen before Elokhar has a chance to use it.
We have the Stormfather’s word that an honor blade will operate the oathgates so now we need to worry about Taravangian trolling the KR as a confirmed possibility.
I think that the copycat murders are an unmade at work. Question, does it copy every killing? Will it throw someone off the cliff to duplicate Ned’s killing by the bouncers?
Damnnn Shallan. Her storyline is definitely getting a little dark. I’m loving her adventures with liquor and totally crazy ways of getting information -actually the less morally inclined side of me would kind of like to see the Veil-Shallan and vengeful Jasnah just go on justice rampages together. But there’s definitely so much foreboding in that entire scene. Pattern getting nervous about her definitely worries me, as does the fact she can’t keep her reality and her “lies” straight. But even more than that, she’s starting to act a bit like an addict and it’s really unnerving. Escaping into her illusions to avoid facing her past, and getting pleasure out of physical pain because she feels it matches her emotional pain? It makes me so sad for her. Can you become an alcoholic if you can heal away the liquor as soon as you ingest it? Because there was no reason to buy the rest of that horneater bottle, and I’m a little worried she’s enjoying the feel of alcohol too much.
Also loved the slave shooting Kaladin down as he tried to say he could relate to him because they had both been slaves. It reminds me of the way Kaladin would get upset at the suggestion that lighteyes could ever understand what it was like to be him -nice for him to see that there are others who had it worse, and that maybe not experiencing the exact same pain doesn’t mean that you can’t sympathize.
Not much else others haven’t already mentioned. Fantastic chapters, as always. I keep thinking we’ll come to a point where none of the three will be particularly exciting -Sanderson didn’t write these for publishing in this way, so there’s no guarantee you’ll always get an action/information packed trio, but each week is as engaging as the next!
Do we really know how to bond an Honorblade?
Rial isn’t from Kaladin’s original bridge crew, but one of the others.
@28 you got me with the bleeding remark, I was thinking of the stabbing first ;€)
‘It seems, though, that Shallan is bleeding through Veil’
Great story so far, questions asked keeping up with those answered..
To everyone saying that the stormlight or bond “healed” the nightwatchers effect on Dalinar (and Lift), I disagree for three reasons :
1. Lift uses the nightwatchers effect to convert food into stormlight
2. Lift was chosen (at least partially) because of having her boon and curse
3. Stormlight heals by returning people to what they think of themselves normally (probably didn’t word that precisely enough to technically be true, but I am referring to the same thing that prevents Kaladins brands from healing), and having forgotten those memories was almost as much off who Dalinar was as the slave brands are part of who Kalladin is
I think it more likely that it is more complicated than simple healing (for example the exact curse/boon could have been “lose these memories until certain conditions are met”)
And that is the end of my first comment on any of these fan discussion threads :)
@69 True, I totally misread it. I was thinking he was new to the bridges in general and bridge 13 not just bridge 4. But having read it again he’s just a bridgeman with a past that’s gotten a second chance with the bridges. Seems like he’s just trying to do his job.
Here are a few WoB about bonding Honorblades. Basically, the gist is that you can dismiss them as soon as you’re holding it, but this may/may not constitute a bond.
QUESTION
Can someone bond more than one Honorblade?
BRANDON SANDERSON
Honorblade? You can’t bond an Honorblade, though it can be given to you. Shardblades, however, come from a spren bond and it is possible to bond more than one.
FOOTNOTE
Later clarified, Brandon misunderstood the question. One may be bound to multiple Honorblades.
QUESTION ()
You mentioned that human can’t bond Honorblades, but Nalan tells Szeth that his bond with his Honorblade has been broken. Can you clear this up?
BRANDON SANDERSON
Humans CAN bond Honorblades. There’s a crucial difference between Honorblades and Shardblades. When you drop an Honorblade, it does not disappear, even if it has been bonded. A Shardblade will disappear when dropped.
Q: If someone is using an Honorblade, would they be able to bond a spren? A: It is indeed possible. It does not block it. Good question. You do not have to bond Honorblades. Honorblades work with whoever holds them.
@13 – the phrase ‘shard of RAFO’ absolutely cracked me up.
@16 – ahahahahaha :)
And ooh yeah, I forgot to comement on being worried for Shallan in general, now blurring the lines betweens what she knows to be true. I hope she finds some pleasant truths to ground her as well as the painful ones. Maybe one of her truths will be to realize all her personas are a part of her.
And I’m also intrigued about the Odium spren and its motives. It didn’t seem particularly sinister/evil and I guess I imagined it to look a little more foreboding. But looks aren’t everything ;) Is it possibly Syl is wrong about what it is and/or its true nature?
I don’t normally post but I’ve been enjoying this read and the weekly discussions so far so go easy on me.
I’m not sure we really know what happening with the “Kaladin” Parshendi yet and the yellow-white spren. Syl mentions a highspren being around and then voidspren pops up in conversation about whats leading them. I don’t recall a voidspren being referred to as a highspren or not recognized as a voidspren or something different by a highspren before. This could be some miscommunication between Syl and Kal or a complete misunderstanding to keep us off-balance.
So I may be missing something that is too obvious for others to comment on – but have we had confirmation before that Zaseth (likely misspelled) is a traveler? The black on white figure of speech seems to much a clue that he comes from elsewhere but I can’t at all remember another of his novels that could have come from. Also surprised there hasn’t been more discussion over the knowing which traditions to throw away and which to keep. I suppose I should have known better but I didn’t really expect such a true statement from Church of Later Day Saints Sanderson. I mean they are as bound in tradition as the Catholic church really. Certainly the other Church of Later Day Saints fantasy/Sci-Fi authors I am familiar with I can’t see saying this. ((And someone should do a study on why there are so many Church of Later Day Saints fantasy authors there really seems to be a lot of them for the tiny part of the American population they are)).
As also a thoughtful/intelligent person of faith as one other person mentioned I also found that discussion particularly apt. Such a hard thing to do that each person has to do individually.
I am also becoming very worried about Shallan – one thing I did find interesting was pattern saying that’s not the lie. He of course could be referring to the “lies” she is making with her illusions but it seemed like there was something else he was hinting at their. I am not sure we have seen the last of the lies about her childhood she is going to have to face.
Man these books are so good. Really can not wait for this to be published!
@75 A higher spren, not a highspren. Meaning a sapient spren, rather than, say, a gloomspren.
@76 Do you mean Zahel? He’s Vasher, from Warbreaker. Confirmed.
I’ve been reading Oathbringer week after week, but never commented. After such an exciting reading I had too. Kaladin’s chapter was fascinating–and blessedly long too. If there is only one red spren among the parshmen/women… then what spren did the others bond? I liked Kaladin’s inner-reflections as well because it really delves the reader into who Kaladin is as an individual.
Shallan’s (Veil’s) chapter was my favorite by far. The conversation between Shallan and Pattern as he voices concern over her lies being “wrong,” was well-placed. I cannot help but wonder if Shallan is coming down with multiple personalities disorder because of the trauma of her childhood? Either way, Veil is one scary individual. You would not see me mess with her. I am excited for more Veil chapters.
Next Tuesday is too far away….
@74 and 75. I don’t think it’s a voidspren either. Sounds like a high spren we haven’t seen before. Dustbringer maybe?
@77 Dendrophobe Thanks you for pointing out the “higher spren”. I went back and re-read but she did say “like me”. I’d be surprised to see a spren of honor refer to a voidspren like that though. I look forward to finding out which way it goes.
Some thoughts, in no particular order:
•I find it interesting that Syl doesn’t like Adolin because he uses a Shardblade and Pattern likes him and has a different perspective on the Blades in general.
•WHEN ARE SYL AND PATTERN GOING TO MEET?? I know Syl saw Pattern during the epic duel in WOR, and Syl was “mostly dead” when Kaladin and Shallan and Pattern were in the chasms, but I can’t imagine they will or can go much longer without meeting each other once the gang gets back together.
•Are we ever going to see Glys?
•I wonder what the next Dalinar chapter will look like; whether he suddenly remembers everything about Evi or if he just gets a few fragmented memories.
•The way Dalinar was sparring and negotiating with the queen is a completely and utterly in-character thing for him to do.
•That the preface’s author refers to experience as “she” reinforces my belief that it’s Jasnah.
•Speaking of which, where is she? We know that Wit found her, but where?
•I much prefer Kaladin, Defender of the Underdogs to Brightness Brooding-Eyes.
•What form are these new parsh-people in? The descriptions seem to match nimbleform best, but are they of a new form entirely? And how did they all end up in the same one? The way our bits from Eshonai’s POV described it, there was always a chance of ending up in a random (known) form when exposed to a storm, so what are the odds?
•Shallan is getting in way over her head with this investigating. I hope she either realizes it or just starts pacing herself. Like several of you, I’m really worried about her mental situation.
@76 As a member of the same church as Brandon, I think we actually ask ourselves this question quite a bit. “What is actually doctrine and what do we feel we need to do to gain salvation?” vs. “Is this just a tradition that isn’t necessary.” Because it’s true, we have our own, sometimes interesting traditions.
I think that is Dalinar’s point here. He’s saying: “look, the desolation is here, we don’t have the time or the energy to waste on things that are just tradition and not necessary to get people through this.”
I think the same could be said for any traditional “line of thinking” or prejudice. Anything that isn’t going to help us all get through this crazy life together, as fellow human beings, should be looked at critically. These may be things that we are doing or thinking just because its tradition and aren’t going to help us all get through this together. It’s crazy out there right now, highstorms, mass murders, let’s unite instead of divide.
Edit: I found this interesting on the coppermind: “It should be noted that “pious” is the primary divine attribute of Ishar, the Herald of the Order of Bondsmiths.”
What an interesting contrast. The ardents feel like he’s not being pious at all, when really he is trying to get them to believe in what will actually save them. True piety?
Syl and Pattern must have met when the Radiants got together at the end of the last book.
Because I’ve seen it brought up a bit, I just want to put my own thoughts in on this. I don’t think Shallan has DID (which is dissociative identity disorder, aka multiple personalities). I know some people who have DID, and it’s not quite how I see her situation as being. However, I do believe that she at least has PTSD (based on her panicking last week when Adolin offered to train her) and severe trauma, and she uses these personas she has created as coping mechanisms and avoidance. As much as I love her, she still has some unhealthy viewpoints, and in order for her to let go of those, she has to start working on her own issues and acknowledging them instead of avoiding them constantly. With that said, I’m worried about her reckless behavior, I’m worried about her alcohol consumption, and, since she can’t even trust herself right now, I’m worried about her relationships with the rest of the cast, too.
Hmm so black on white was from warbreaker somewhere? Thought about warbreaker but didn’t remember it from there. Interesting I wonder if the princess we see vasher take up with at the end of warbreaker (vasher was the returned right – been a while) shows up – and how is vasher surviving on Roshar what is he doing for breath?
@81 here again, I forgot to add:
How long have these copycat murders been going on for?
@85 WoB is *roll over for potential spoilers* that we will be seeing Vivenna very soon… She should be hidden in Oathbringer somewhere.
As to how Vasher survives without Breath, it’s actually easier for him on Roshar than on Nalthis. He can get Stormlight very easily, and can use that instead of Breath to survive. He can’t Awaken with it (yet) though. But the easy access to Stormlight is actually the entire reason he’s on Roshar at all.
Note: message edited by moderator to white out potential spoilers.
First time poster, but holy crap this is so good!
Dalinar Chapter:
Nice to have confirmation that the Honor Blades are splinters of Honor, very interested to find out more about how these work.
I think the next Dalinar chapter will be a flash back where we get to see something that involves him and Evi, that is perhaps pivotal. Sanderson is such a good story teller that I think he will want the dramatic tension for how the present day Dalinar deals with the new found memories of his wife to have more context and more time to simmer.
Sticking Kadash to the floor, what a great way to win an arguement!
Kaladin Chapter:
I know someone commented in after the “Squires Can’t Capture” Kal chapter that perhaps Kaladin will turn the Parshendi troop into another group of windrunner squires. That would be awesome, the perfect completion of the long running leit motif of the carrier of bridges, bridging the gulf between the two peoples and it would be just awesome to have Parshendi Knight Radiants as well. The bit of dialog where he says that a Squire can capture a card only that it’s touching, hints at the deeper way that Kaladin operates in gaining the loyalty of his men, and adhesion is the tendency of disimilar particles touching each other to stick together. I really hope some of the Parshendi are on a redemptive arc. Also, with some of the parshendi joining the ranks of Honor, that would make the possibility of some of the humans joining the ranks of Odium and possibly bonding Voidspren all the more likely. Angels and fallen angels, paradise lost, good stuff!
I also thought the relationship with the Parshendi dad and his daughter was very touching.
I really liked this chapter, I think in the next Kal chapter we are going to see him giving out firemaking merit badges to grinning Parshendi, keep up the good work Scout leader Kal.
Shallan Chapter:
I know that some are concerned about the dark direction Shallan’s struggles with the unpleasant realities of her past are going, but I think that this darker turn has been hinted at. The meeting in Urithuru with Mraize suggests that he knows this possible crack in her Psyche exists when he tells her something to the effect that they can have brightlady Shallan but the Ghostbloods have Veil. The whole problem of staring into the abyss too long until the abyss stares out of you is baked into this situation. At some point a decision will have to be made by Shallan, loyalty is one thing that can’t be divided.
Overall, awesome chapter. One question though, was it wise to scratch the ghostblood symbol into the table, my gut says that was a mistake. Secret societies tend not to like publicly visible manifestations of their presence. Like another poster, I’m interested to see what the Ghostbloods think of her information gathering mission.
SPECULATION TIME:
Who get’s the honorblde?
I think this one might be going to Adolin. He lives in a changed world and he has noticeably not attracted any spren. He lived the carefree life of a show-off dandy, but the Desolation is coming. One theory would be that Dalinar takes his shardplate but gives him the honor blade as compensation, and he accompanies Elokhar on his mission to Kolinar. I like Adolin as a character, this is one possible way to make him more relevant for when the Desolation actually comes, otherwise I think he is heading for a bad end…
As far as Sadea’s murder goes, I think that this is a more pivotal event in Adolin’s life than has been imaginged. He killed him in a moment of rage, is somewhat adrift (has time to mope with Dalinar’s horse), and is possibly heading for heartbreak with a certain Red-headed lightweaver. This all points to the possibility that he will be (wild speculation here) Odium’s champion. Just a thought.
MORE INTERESTING SPECULATION:
With the time between chapter releases, like a drug addict, I have been scrounging up all the scraps and dribbles of information that I can from the transcripts of book signings, and in one of them (not sure which) Brandon said that we have definitely seen someone who has been hemalurgically spiked that wasn’t on Scadrial.
Has anyone during their re-reads of WoK or WoR noticed if Taravangian has been pierced by metal? Also, does anyone know if a shard other than Ruin/Harmony can use the resultant tear in a person’s spirit web to directly manipulate a person? Seems to me, the best opening gambit for Odium’s Final Desolation would be to do exactly what Taravangian did, cut off the heads of all of the major kingdoms, sowing chaos, fear and dissension. Also, there is the point that Taravangian was studying the Death Rattles, which are influenced (possibly created) by the splinter of Odium Moelach, which seems like something that someone under the influence of a hemalurgic spike being manipulated by Odium would do. One last point along these lines is that the Diagram mentions that Dalinar is to be watched and if he seems like he is heading on the path of Peacemaker he is to be killed.
Can’t believe I have to wait a full week for the next fix of three chapters…
I wonder how much the Parshmen know about the spren leading them. Are they aware of what it is and what it intends to do? If not, what happens when the rubber hits the road?
The Parshmen aren’t “corrupted” yet. If they were, Kaladin would have had things done to him (interrogation, torture for the lulz, execution, etc.) but nothing has. The Parshmen don’t know what to do with him, and a couple suggest letting him go. That’s not “possessed by an evil god of hatred”-type behavior.
Chapter 16
Szeth’s Honorblade finally makes an appearance. The Honorblade description is far closer in size and shape to Nightblood than most Shardblades are.
Removing pain from someone is almost never a good idea in stories, lol. Pain is the common denominator of the human experience.
Hi there, Zahel/Vasher!
Ha! Navani, some wives might like that. Not mine, but some.
Dalinar’s story of the ancient swordmaster reminds me of one I’ve heard three or four times in different context, about a woman who asks her mother why they cut off the ends of the loaf before putting it in the oven. Ends up, the great grandma had a smaller pan, and had to cut the ends off, and the rest of the women in the family simply kept doing it out of habit.
Nice touch, on the name reveal.
Chapter 17
I never understood why some commenters thought these weren’t Parshmen last week. There were too many signals that these were indeed the household servants of the Alethi.
Kaladin is of course, the perfect person to be introduced to this new reality of what the Parshmen are. And his Parshman captor is completely right to scream that it’s not the same thing at all. But hopefully they will realize that while its NOT the same, its close enough to create a bridge for empathy to cross.
But is he right that their free will was taken from them by their captors? That remains to be seen.
This bit:
Boy, if you didn’t know this was about the Parshmen… you could be excused for thinking it was about the dead-spren Shardblades. Interesting.
Ha! Kaladin has a new crew to train.
Chapter 18
What Shallan is doing with her psyche is extremely dangerous. In the real world, clinical disassociation is a real danger. I don’t know if ti will play out that way in the Cosmere, though, as we’ve already seen a few examples of this kind of magical disassociation, and something almost exactly the same in The Emperor’s Soul.
So, in a TV Adaptation of The Stormlight Archive, do Shallan’s different… aspects… get cast by different actresses? Or do you think theyshould be handled by a single actress?
While she’s infused with Stormlight, shouldn’t it be healing her immediately? So, no lightheadedness from the alcohol?
Ok, so she doesn’t need to keep Stormlight inside her to maintain her illusions. That makes sense.
Hoo boy. Ok, there is most definitely something mystical at work with the murders. Two double murders? Both the next night? That has the makings of magic to it.
When will we get a Jasnah chapter?
And any chance to get another set of chapters after the release for those that shipping will get them the book only by December?
I believe that the truth to save Shallan would be for her to acknowledge that she was not to blame for her mother’s death. That she was only protecting herself as a kid. And the “decay” of her father can be traced to that…to the cheating, kid murderer wannabe mother. I also believe that this will not happen until close to the end of the book.
@53 … About the parshendi and the alethi and voidbringers… I think you might be onto something. I remember Honor saying in a Dalinar vision something along the lines of: “they think we have won. We did not. We lost…”
So the theory that Sadeas’s “partner”, for lack of a better word, was done to get Adolin to confess, looks pretty shaky now. I wonder if there really IS a connection between the 4 deaths.
Also, did anyone else note the use of Important Capitalization during Syl’s line? Connection and Identity have to do with Feruchemy, so is there a budding Feruchemist present? Are we gonna see more of that?
Connection and Identity are key concepts throughout the Cosmere, probably, and we just first heard of them through a Feruchemist. Especially since Syl is the one saying it. All the magic systems are very closely aligned underneath the hood, in what Khriss would refer to as Realmatic Theory.
@94 I yelled aloud when Syl started talking about Connection and Identity. This explains Kaladin’s question of how the parshmen can speak and act as if they are from Alethkar even after having their minds taken for centuries. Their missing Connection and Identity has been filled in with Alethkar Connection investiture, as if the parshmen are unsealed metalminds from Mistborn’s Bands of Mourning. Maybe this means that Dullform is a way parshmen can become easy worldhoppers!
@37 I don’t think so, but this frees us up to have all the great flashback sequences Brandon wants to give us with out having them blurred out mid-flashback all weird.
I think story timing wise it’s just a practical thing that frees up Brandon as a writer. That said, we know there is a “why” behind it, but meta speaking it’s just easier to have her memory revived now.
In quiet we wait, breath indrawn, our scopes trained on the elusive Hunny…
I also agree that Shallan’s next truth will be focused more on where she is at personally rather than on what Adolin has done. With everything she has going on underneath she’s going to be getting to the point where she is hardly going to be able to function let alone be a Radiant. She’s going to have to figure that out and I would agree its the most logical step in her progression.
Good luck on hunny hunting whoever is next!
Mine?
First and hunny. Not bad.
As for the spren, I don’t really see how there’s debate. Syl, residing in the cognitive realm, clearly knows the various spren types. She knows about Highspren (Skybreakers) and Cryptics, and alludes to more. She refers to this one as a higher spren, like here, meaning that it has sapience unlike all the normal spren like painspren, gloryspren, and the like. But then she says it’s of him. A Voidspren. Syl is kind of our resident spren expert here… Why aren’t more people taking her at her word?
Melbu Frahma @@@@@13
Bahahahaha! Perfect.
nordithen @@@@@15, and several others – This is what happens when someone is so convinced of their theory that they talk about it as settled truth. Sanderson never confirmed Shalash = Shshsh – and never would have; that was a total fabrication by a fan (or several) who got an idea and wouldn’t let go. It didn’t make sense anyway because Shalash is described (TWoK Interlude 7) as having dark skin and long black hair, when we knew Adolin got the blond in his hair from his mother. It was a lame theory, but for some reason, a lot of people believed it and it’s been hanging around for years. Maybe now it will go away.
nordithen @@@@@ 30 –
Since Shalash has all of three lines in that Interlude, and Dalinar’s wife hasn’t yet had any lines, I don’t quite get this claim. (I see someone referred to the audio recording of The Thrill, but this will be rerecorded for Oathbringer, since the flashbacks have been edited.) Also, I don’t know that they check all the voices with Sanderson; he generally gives them a pronunciation guide, and they check with him on outstanding questions, but I think the voices are up to them.
In any case, it’s a totally erroneous theory, as noted above.
Daniel @@@@@40 – There’s a missing line break. “I’ll await you in the writing chamber” should be a separate paragraph.
noblehunter @@@@@51 – Mwahahahahaha! ;)
Supersmith @@@@@58 – Yes, WoB is that someone could bond two Shardblades, though they’d have to summon each one separately rather than simultaneously.
Wow! So many new posters today! Welcome all!
About Dalinar’s wife, I have a question for y’all: Do you feel that, as a reader, knowing Evi’s name ahead of time would have spoiled the effect of Dalinar hearing it for the first time? Or, if you read The Thrill, do you think having that knowledge affected your reading of this scene?
Rats! Foiled again!
“Unite Them.”
Kaladin’s experience with the Parshendi is making me consider that the needed union is not all humankind, but rather a union of humankind and Parshendi. Thoughts?
@85 Zahel’s, well, colorful idioms aren’t in Warbreaker. I think WoB is that Nalthian speech in Warbreaker is “translated” to the equivalent English expressions. But because Zahel is on Roshar, he sounds weird to the locals, so we get to hear it as weird, too.
@101:
As someone who has listened to every single Cosmere audiobook that Michael Kramer has recorded, I can tell you that its bunk. The voices are different from book to freaking book within the same series sometimes. Hoid never sounds the same. Ever. Even the accent is different sometimes. There’s enough time and effort put into audiobooks without that level of specificity.
@101 Having read The Thrill, I saw her name and stopped. Otherwise I probably would have missed it, and not realized anything was amiss until Dalinar pointed it out. I was still really excited about the reveal, because it wasn’t real for the characters until that moment.
@104:
There were a few literally colorful idioms in Warbreaker. So its not just the translation thing. Zahel is getting them as character tags though, so there is a function attached to them instead of just worldbuilding spice, like we’d see in Warbreaker, so they stick out more.
@101 I got a solid “wait, what?” moment with Dalinar since I didn’t recognize the name at first. Knowing the name ahead of time would have changed it to another world-building/plot point which while tasty isn’t as unique.
@Wetlandernw:
I think it would have been more powerful if we’d heard Adolin or Renarin mention her by name outside of a Dalinar POV prior to this reveal. There’s nothing special about the reveal of this name, because she isn’t someone we knew prior to this. Then, Brandon could have snuck, erm, excuse me, sneaked in a few mentions of her name previously and not have Dalinar notice that his block was failing. As it is, we only get one hint that his block is failing, then its just gone. Seeding that a bit more, with us clued in, but not Dalinar, could have provided a different quality to the reveal, one I think might have been more appropriate to the lack of weight of such a reveal.
@105 In The Hero of Ages the epigraphs are quite clearly read in Sazed’s voice. It’s a major spoiler if one’s paying enough attention on the first listen.
“Veil hadn’t suffered as Shallan had.”
“Veil had her own kind of power, that of a lifetime spent on the streets knowing she could take care of herself.”
Might be just me but this thing Shallan does with her different personas sounds to me almost exactly like the Forging in The Emperor’s Soul, altering the object’s past to turn it into something/somebody different. So does Shallan actually tamper with Identity via her illusions? Because in this case I wonder how far she is from being able to change something/someone other than herself this way.
About Dalinar’s returning memory:
Might be a side-effect of the painial in his wristwatch.
Anthony @109 – I wasn’t so much wondering how it could have been made more effective in general, as I was wondering whether knowing it from The Thrill affected the reading of this chapter. I’ll share my personal story … later. After I’ve got more input – if I get more! :D
@Wet
I guess my point was I don’t see how just knowing the name could ruin it. There’s nothing special about the name, that I can see. Maybe I’m wrong. But the way Brandon has described the Flashback sequences is that it has nothing to do with characters remembering their past. That’s how we could get a Flashback sequence from a character that is already dead. So, the fact that we get her name in The Thrill doesn’t even spoil the fact that he remembers her. So, no, knowing the name ahead of time didn’t spoil anything in my opinion.
Having read The Thrill, the reveal of the name was nothing. The reveal that Dalinar could hear it, however…
I honestly thought a serious mistake was made in the process of putting this together, that the name was used in the wrong POV.
Re: Shallan’s identity problem
I’ve been thinking for a while (and this chapter gives more evidence) that given the power set of the Lightweavers, there’s a real danger of them losing themselves in their assumption of different characters, not unlike the trope of undercover police who end up going to the dark side. So it makes sense to me that the speaking of truths is necessary for a Lightweaver to maintain an anchor to their true self. As they acknowledge more and more of their true self, they can more safely do more with their powers with less danger of being unable to set aside their roles and return to normal.
And for those hoping for happy truths, I strongly suspect that the truths will tend to be unhappy ones, because it’s precisely those that are most tempting to forget and just not deal with (as Shallan did). We may not enjoy our sorrows, but they form a large part of who we are.
@112:
Maybe. But I don’t think the Painreal actually heals. I think it just blocks pain. It also probably only has effects in the Physical Realm, and while its possible the Nightwatcher’s blocking of Dalinar’s memory may be purely physical, my guess would be that its at least partly Cognitive.
I also think that the Old Magic surrounding Dalinar began crumbling earlier, and he started to remember some things that were blocked while he was talking to Kadesh in a previous scene.
@116 I think that Shallan only has unhappy truths at the moment is why she’s losing her grip. Based on my nephews, I think joy can shape people just as strongly. It’s not surprising that Shallan has many unhappy truths but I hope she finds some happy ones.
@116:
So far, to your point, all of Shallan’s truths have been things she’s hiding from herself. But we don’t know that that’s the way it will work for all Lightweavers. It could be a function of Shallan’s past.
@118:
But I think the truths are more about Self-awareness, and not concealing things from yourself. Those would tend to be negative things.
And then I saw her face!
Now I’m a believer!
Wetlandernw @101 I didn’t know her name beforehand, but I don’t think it would’ve spoiled anything. Both recognizing the name and not recognizing it would, I think, add different things to the reveal. For me, it was nice to have a similar reaction to Dalinar, having a random name you aren’t used to hearing thrown out, and then slowly realizing it’s his wife’s name, and then that he can hear it. But if I’d recognized it as his wife’s name, it would’ve given me a fun second or so of being like “wait, oh snap, did she just say the name, did he actually hear it, holy crap he did.” I agree with what others have said, that the reveal that Dalinar can now hear her name is more exciting than her name, and I think I at least would have felt just as excited by the reveal regardless.
@101:
I read that collection of Dalinar’s flashbacks a few months ago, and I enjoyed them – but I totally forgot his wife’s name and skipped right by it until Dalinar himself pointed it out.
@117 re Dalinar: It’s possible it started fading as soon as he swore the first Oath in the last book. What do you think? Could the influence of one greatspren like the Stormfather cancel out the influence of another, in this case the Nightwatcher?
Re: Shallons next truth
It doesn’t have to be something hidden, my current guess is that it will be something about all of her personas still being her (acting like someone different doesn’t change het problems, etc)
@101: I am more or less with @109 with respect to the reveal.
It happened more or less out of nowhere and the event was not used as trigger for any dramatic action. I was hoping Dalinar’s memories of wife (or therefore lack of) would have been put to better use in order to increase the tension in between him and his sons. Having the name being revealed in such manner didn’t create much of a moment, for me as reader, not a bigger one than having read it during the Thrill. At the time, I was far more interested in the reveal of the following:
– There is an uncle. What happened to him?
– Adolin’s shardplate was stolen. From whom? And will someone ever reclaim it? I did think a similar scene, to the one we have just read, with Iriali was likely to happen. I am interested in what Dalinar will do now.
– Dalinar and Evi’s actual relationship as opposed to the one readers have foreseen.
As for the name itself, I was thinking it would have been more powerful had Dalinar been forced to admit to Adolin he forgot his mother combined with turmoil following the whole Sadeas murder thing only to remember her at a crucial moment. Then again, maybe my thoughts would have been different had I not read the Thrill first.
My feelings currently are Brandon had a lot of various possibilities to capitalize on drama and conflict, but so far has not used many. It makes the story slightly less engaging as we move into it because I feel all the tension was removed. The copycat murders are a meta plot which is bigger than our characters (and thus does not affect them as much) and as such has lost some of my interest. I was initially dreading finding out what will happen, now I don’t care so much because it is turning into something too meta to affect anyone. I have lost all feeling of anticipation I had towards it.
I am glad the Shalash is Shshsh theory has been put to rest: not many readers supported it anyway. It never made sense: Adolin presumably looks like his mother, therefore his mother looks… like him. She can’t have been browned skinned and browned haired Shalash.
@124 re dalinar
I think it more likely that his curse/ boon had conditions on it (as in he will forget until the conditions are met), but your theory is still way more likely than all the people saying stormlight healed him
@117 In real life emotional pain does block memories. Also the timing matches: Brandon goes to some length to make clear that this is the first time Dalinar is wearing that fabrial.
With regards to the lack of Kholin family drama, I feel like Brandon is waiting for a key point for that to come to a head (maybe after Adolin becomes high prince)
Awesome chapters. I just finished rereading Warbreaker last night. I had forgotten about Nightblood and didn’t realize Zahel was Vasher. (Are we sure about that?) So the theory is that STORMLIGHT and BREATH are interchangeable? Also, I didn’t realize Hoid was in there too.
I have heard about The Thrill, but couldn’t find it. Anyone know where I can read it?
@101 & others – I have not read the Thrill chapters previously, and when Navani said Evi’s name I immediately twigged that it was Dalinar’s wife and practically jumped out of my seat. It was a great reveal, as it hit me all at once that we were in Dalinar’s POV and he must’ve heard it too, even before I read the next lines confirming that.
@128 Perhaps he asked to forget her until he could not feel the pain any longer. The fabrial is taking pain; so he remembers? That seems too simple.
@130 Yes, it’s confirmed. Zahel is Vasher. He even went by Vasher in WoK Prime – Brandon wrote Warbreaker as the origin story for a character he already had written in WoK Prime. Then he realized he’d go under an alias, and called him Zahel.
And yes, Hoid is Wit.
Stormlight and Breath aren’t exactly interchangeable… But Investiture is Investiture. With the proper “hack” to the system, you can make it work.
The Thrill is a collection of Dalinar flashbacks (some of which have already been released in these chapters, and the rest will be coming somewhere in the rest of Oathbringer.) It’s available in the collection Unfettered 2.
What if Dalinar broke the curse by not choosing the Thrill?
I don’t post often, but read most all comments. :)
@133 Thanks for the info.
@75 Syl doesn’t say high spren she says higher spren. I took this to mean that it was a spren that could be self aware, not of the high spren variety.
Adolin has a secret he must lie about, yet is tasked with seeking and reveling the truth.
Seems natural that Pattern would like Adolin
@@@@@ 101 Wetlandernw. I still quite liked the reveal of Evi, though to be honest I’m not a person that really minds spoilers. If they’re negative, I can prepare, if they’re positive, it’s like a fun event to look forward to.
Could be spoilery for Unfettered II:
[But my thought process here went more like ‘oh yes Evi and her brother stole Adolin’s shardplate from Rira, I remember that from the flashback waitholdonaminute we are in Dalinar’s perspective, why can he hear her name??‘]
So the big effect for me simply happened a few sentences earlier than it might have for someone who was completely unspoiled.
I was also one of the people who said he might’ve heard Evi’s voice from the Unfettered II audiobook. I’ve never believed Evi was Shallash, and I also don’t believe a similar voice would suggest that (e.g. the mysteriously changing Thaylen accent), but the point remained that I forgot there was a released audiobook in which Evi’s voice could have shown up. So the original poster’s comment could have been based on canon-adjacent material (because the chapters were not completely finished). :)
@@@@@ 126 Gepeto. I personally believe Adolin’s going to remain involved with the murder case, and that it can still be very engaging. Now Adolin and Shallan are both investigating the murders from different angles, and they both have secrets about the case that they’d want to keep to themselves. :) Someone, or something is spying on people who break the law/commit murder/do whatever, and copying them exactly.. that’s rather creepy and nervewracking. Speaking of tension, we shouldn’t forget these are chapters we’d normally read through very quickly, and that Brandon Sanderson is the master of building up a story only to knock it down in a giant avalanche finale. Personally I like the balance of worldbuilding/small cliffhangers. If we constantly got big event after big event the readers would just get tired from the endless emotional rollercoaster. There’s still like 12 chapters to go through before the end of part one and the first mid finale, and another 900 pages after all of that. He probably doesn’t want us to be emotionally exhausted so far before the end.
@@@@@ 71 Clarkonator – I wonder if the condition for Dalinar remembering his wife could have been telling someone he couldn’t remember her – or telling someone he loved, or something of that sort.
@75 I took Syl’s meaning to be “a higher spren”, i.e. one that can think and form a bond, as opposed to regular spren. Like honorspren vs windspren. So a voidspren that can bond would still be a higher spren….at least that’s how I took it.
@138 elle – Possible spoilers:
Is your statement that oh yes Evi and her brother stole Adolin’s shardplate from Rira, I remember that from the flashback from the Unfettered 2/Thrill chapters or were you repeating the Iriali queen’s claims from earlier in OB chapter 16? If the former, please edit and white out this paragraph as it’s definitely a spoiler.
@88 hoiditthroughthegrapevine (great name, btw) – I don’t think Taravangian has been spiked, personally. It could be anyone, IIRC that WOB didn’t necessarily say the person outside Scadrial was on Roshar…
@@@@@ 141 shippywars. I wasn’t sure if I should white out the text or not, but I decided not to, because it is all information that is told to us in this chapter. I’ll white it out though, and put a ‘might be spoilers’ warning on it.
@138: It seems each week I am waiting for something to happen and each week…. nothing really tangible happens with a few exceptions. After this week, I find all character’s story arc to be too disconnected one from another. Kaladin is doing his own thing, Shallan is doing his own thing, Dalinar is doing his own thing, Adolin is doing his own thing and whatever happens, this guy is just so resilient nothing ever gets to him. While I appreciate the attempts to give more depth to Adolin, I am starting to find his behavior slightly implausible: nobody can be this selfless, this unselfish, this generous, this disconnected such as NOT to feel anything with respect to everything which has happened.
Obviously, I understand had I the books within my hands, I would have kept on reading and the big turn-over may be next week, but after 20 chapters, which 1/5 of the book, I was hoping for a bit more drama. I was hoping for Sadeas’s murder to be a plot point not a red herring.
So yeah, finding out the copycat murders are not a ploy by Ialai, finding out it is “someone/something” else making them, I find it considerably less interesting than if it were a real effort to find Sadeas’s murderer.
@142 elle – thanks! I read it as the Iriali queen claimed the ShardPlate was stolen, but it wasn’t clear to me from Dalinar and Navani’s reactions whether it was truth or politics.
Hooooly moly, this week’s chapters are packed with goodies. I’m not sure if I’m going to be able to keep reading these without losing my mind! (But I’m totally going to keep reading, no way I could stop now :P)
I may be reading too much into this, but my first impression on reading these words was that we’ve just got another Shard named here.
@@@@@ 143 Gepeto. Can you explain what you mean when you say ‘he doesn’t feel anything with respect to everything which has happened’? I though the story showed us Adolin was definitely not unaffected. It’s just that other people aren’t paying any attention to him, except Renarin, who seemed to have had a ‘now why is Adolin looking like that time he accidently shattered mother’s expensive vase’ moment a few chapters ago. I believe most siblings relatively close in age should be familiar with that ‘no I’m not lying, why’ look. :)
Dalinar doesn’t notice because he just got married, he’s dealing with the church and with the other monarchs, and he’s struggling to keep up. Shallan seems to be focused on her own downward spiral. Though I believe even in last week’s chapters we see signs of Adolin’s nervousness. Shallan’s probably looking at the books most of the time, since she has to read the reports out loud, but Adolin is tossing a ball back and forth. It’s very similar to one of his other nervous ticks, where he summons and resummons his shardblade constantly. So there’s definitely signs of something happening there, even if the POV character is clueless.
And maybe Ialai is the secret Unmade. :) It could be a new theory, now we’ve lost ‘Dalinar’s wife is Shallash the Herald’. But either way, something is going to happen, and I have a good amount of trust in Brandon Sanderson’s capability to create a lot of drama in his storytelling.
@@@@@144 shippywars. I said stole there because I was reading along with the text of this chapter, but in hindsight it was a bad choice of words. I’m sorry.
Am I the only one who thought Rial is Wayne in disguise again? The description and way he talks is Wayne all over! That is potentially either his 2nd or even 3rd appearance in the Stormlight Archive now =]
Anthony @109: “snuck” is more American and informal. In the books there are situations or characters where sometimes “snuck” gets used, sometimes “sneaked.”
Also, for those interested, some Way of Kings Prime chapters with Vasher in them have gone up on Brandon’s website, listed as deleted scenes for Words of Radiance.
Plus the first Bridge Four chapter from Dragonsteel Prime went up yesterday.
Anyone speculating that Kaladin’s next oath might be something along the lines of I will protect those who could potentially become my enemies?
@146: Well I’ll admit I was making an over-statement. Adolin is not feeling nothing, it is just none of those feelings have evolved into any tangible plot point. What’s the point of Adolin being nerved-raked if nobody cares, if nobody notices, if it doesn’t cause him to trip somehow? Those thing feels like such a red herring right now as I can’t see how it will evolve. Adolin will just not trip: he has become too placid or maybe he is not placid, but I find it abnormal the only reaction he has is too toss a bag of sand.
@@@@@ 151 Gepeto. You get to have that horrible feeling you also get in horror movies when the monster is behind the main character and they just. don’t. notice. Adolin is slowly breaking down, which we can see hints of as readers, but the POV characters remain ignorant. Brandon Sanderson has done the ‘let’s stay out of this character’s head, so we only see him from the outside for a while because I’m setting up a trap’ (AKA Amaram) before. I’ll admit it would be extremely frustrating though, and I also hope it will build up to something quickly.
Thanks for the heads up Peter.
I had read The Thrill before reading these chapters so I knew Dalinar’s wife’s name already. I was surprised to see it show up so soon. I still ended up doing a double take of sorts as Dalinar did. I really enjoyed that scene. I felt surprised and happy for Dalinar as I know I would have if I came in without knowing Evi’s name. So long story short (too late), it didn’t change my read of the reveal.
The Thrill is decreasing and disappearing because they are too far from Nergaoul for him to affect them with it. Just as Moelach moved and the Death Rattles decreased in Taravangians hospital.
There is no reason for the Parshendi to immediately turn to Voidbringers when it’s specifically said that they’ve merely been healed of what was done to them when “a specific spren” was captured and we already know from WoR that only a few of their forms align their rythyms with “the gods” who are most likely the Unmade, Odiums Splinters, who he’s using to affect Roshar, remember he’s been around since the beginning of time as far as sentience on Roshar is concerned so it’s very possible that his Shards were able to subvert the Parshendi forms, then be “defeated” when the Parshendi were all turned either Parshmen via the capture of a StormFather level spren, or dullform in the case of the Last Legion who became the Parshendi. So technically as long as they don’t embrace a form of Odium, they’ll remain sentient and independent. The yellow spren could be good or evil, not enough info yet.
Shallan has issues…. yup.
Anyone who thinks Dalinar will get the church to come to his point of view: HENRY VIII.
Adolin is definitely not the Odium champion but maybe Hoid has a twin brother?
I was thinking that maybe the curse was broken when Dalinar got remarried. Any thoughts?
Poor Shallan, her pain is making her hide behind an illusion but even two random bar tenders are able to see it. She was also being very stupid with the alcohol. If the Stormlight hadn’t saved her she could have been in a world of hurt.
She did learn a new truth: just the illusion alone isn’t enough. It can’t replace the experience.
Hang in there Gepto, I think we are just at the start of the avalanche. Everything is being set in place for the big fall.
I’m as bad as anyone here with talking so often about the ship with our young adults (Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin) but the serious romance is really Dalinar and Navani. They have had a connection for decades. Dalinar has defied his religion to marry her. He still feels the wonder of being with her.
I believe that Dalinar had the honor blade in mind for himself becoming Honor’s champion. It wasn’t until he really started having to face facts that he realizes it’s was more likely to be Kaladin.
@76 – hah, I was going to say I MENTIONED IT! But I think you meant my post :) (I’m not Mormon, btw, but Catholic, which is also a faith heavily steeped in tradition, Tradition (there’s a difference) and the importance of the interplay of faith/reason – Kadash’s answers would not really be legitmate theological arguments for any of the notable Church thinkers).
Regarding Shallan/truths – I think that positive truths can also be a poweful part of who we are (and I think would be even MORE important if the function of these Truths is to be anchored in who we are, because we are more than just our worst experiences). And I think sometimes we can be just as scared to admit positive things, in their own way.
Regarding the Evi reveal – I have not read the Thrill, but as soon as Jasnah said “Evi and her brother” I just kind of knew that she must be referring to Dalinar’s wife (mainly by the way she was referring to a ‘known’ person) and then had this second moment of ‘wait a sec, we’re in Dalinar’s POV!’. So it was definitely a cool moment. I do think seeing the name for the first time along with Dalinar helped make it more of a moment. (For the record, my biggest ‘regret’ is knowing that Nightblood shows up in the books before I actually read it. That said, at the moment it happened, I was deep enough into the chapter that I wasn’t actively thinking about it, and so as soon as I read the lines “Do you want to destroy some evil today” I let out a little squeal, although of course it was just being reminded of something I already knew. It would have been fun for it to be truly ‘new’)
If Dalinar’s curse/boon was to forget his wife and his marriage to Navani cancelled that, should that mean he starts to forget Navani now that she’s his wife? Or was it more specific? He was granted forgetfulness of Evi and his Nahel Bond cancelled the boon/curse structure. RAFO and all of that.
All I can say is judging from previous Brandon books we know awful things are coming. We are only seeing the tip of a very ugly iceberg.
@148 Yes! I’m not the only one who thinks Wayne is in the stormlight archive! It would be great to see him and Hoid interacting.
Ohh. What if because he looses all memory of his wife, he looses his memory of Navani instead of Evi.
OMG people stop suggesting that! Ow my heart!
One other thing I meant to say – I mentioned in my previous comment that I was writing my post in an airport. Well, when I got on the plane, the guy two seats over was reading Mistborn :) I kinda wanted to say something but I hate when strangers on public transportation bug me while I’m reading :)
But I kinda wondered if there was some sliver of a chance that he was following this thread :)
Also, when I went to buckle my seatbelt, the first thing I saw was, on the metal clip, the single word ‘Lift’ engraved on it (as in ‘lift to release’) and my first thought was not in fact the verb, but our favorite Edgedancer :)
@152: Hey if it built up I will retract everything I have said. It just feels like… no one cares, no one notices and I am starting to feel Adolin himself does not care.
Right now it feels the monster has fallen asleep…
@156: The avalanche better be worth it :-O As for Dalinar and Navani, well Brandon did say he meant for them to be major romance ship. As a reader I find them… a tad boring. The Adolin/Shallan/Kaladin love triangle is so much more interesting. And should I add the new flying ship, the Pattern/Adolin?
That name reveal was as casual as the Who Killed Asmodean reveal in Towers of Midnight. Awesome.
Here’s my speculation: I’m coupling the WoB about Vivenna with the name reveal. I think Evi is Vivenna. I think it explains Adolin’s totally different hair. Just a theory…
What is the Vivenna WoB a few people have mentioned???
@163 – actually, my favorite ‘Who Killed Asmodean’ reveal (although it’s not actually real) came from another Sanderson book :)
Surprised at some of the negative comments towards the chapters so far. I thought the pacing has been great (although frustrating only getting tidbits each week). I mean we are only a week or two into the new book and a ton has happened so far!
I think the Sadeas murder plot is something that is going to simmer for a lot of the book, much bigger things are going on, but at some point it is going to re-surface with some large implications i.e(Adolin as highprince being caught murdering another highprince, Dalinar vs Elkohar in who has authority to judge the situation, etc).
The Dalinar chapter this week has also been one of my favorites so far. Reminded me a lot of the chapter where he used his shardblade and hammer to help with construction to blow off some steam. (can’t remember if it was in WoK or WoR).
Kaladin is living up to the oath “I will protect those who cannot protect themselves”. He never expected that it would apply to “voidbringers “.
What’s happening to the Parshmen fits Sanderson’s style. He does not seem to write character wthat become corrupted without Consent. They must individually chose evil/power, or at least willingly take on risk. I was confused when the book was implying that all parshmen would be transformed at once into mindless savages. It seems more likely now that Voidspren will work to fan the flames of the parshmen’s anger until they choose Odium willingly.
@163 If Evi were Vivenna how would she be on Roshar long enough ago to have Adolin as a son when Zahel has only been there 12-1 years now according to WoB?
Anyone else want to see Shallan and Shai sit down and have a long talk on altering ones own personality?
*edited for ty
Several chapters ago another poster posited the theory that the epigraphs were written by the sunmaker. I’m starting to really get on board with that theory. I think that when the sunmaker ended the heirocracy he changed the religion and possibly the history of it as well. I think Dalinar’s points about traditions for the sake of tradition and wanting proof that vorinism as it is currently taught is what the heralds taught are going to circle back around to whatever the sunmaker may have changed and that knowledge is going to be a big point of conflict for the ardents to either accept with difficulty or remain in denial and denounce anyone who disagrees.
@101 I’ve read The Thrill, and I remembered the name, but I honestly didn’t notice until the narrative spelled it out. I agree with whomever said that it might have been more effective if we had gotten her name from another source before now.
Re. Kaladin: As someone who thinks that Kaladin’s anger towards lighteyes is more justified than the narrative seems to, I find the parshman’s reaction was entirely deserved. His identity wasn’t taken from him.
Re. Shallan: I am definitely starting to worry about her. She has accepted Pattern, at least as much as she can at this point, but her issues need resolving or she will destroy herself. Even Pattern is getting concerned, and I think that is a huge red flag.
On Evi: I honestly think she is who she pretends to be: a Riran with a brother and stolen Shardplate. I don’t think there is anything “special” about the boys besides them being half-Riran while having been raised as full Alethi.
On Dalinar and Tradition: Something I forgot to mention, Dalinar stating tradition for the shake of tradition was foolish. I agree with him. I only wished he’d have the same insights when he applying his Way of Kings: just because the book says it doesn’t mean it should be applied.
I apologize if someone proposed or debunked this theory already, but does anyone else think that Shallan could end up being Odium’s champion? Maybe the 9 shadows alludes to 9 distinct personalities she ends up shaping. Maybe I am crazy, but one of the forwards to a chapter in WOK or WOR mentioned that one of the radiants was a traitor.
Well, we’ve seen Evi’s name blanked out after the wedding, so I don’t think it’s something like “forget my wife”. It happened just after the duel with Kadesh. I’m sure there’s a connection between Kadesh, Evi, and the Nightwatcher.
Looney theory time:
Kadesh kidnapped Evi way back when. Dalinar goes to the Nightwatcher and asks her to remove Kadesh. Kadesh turns on his gang, butchers the lot of them, and joins the ardentia under Dalinar. Dalinar’s price was the removal of his wife from his memory. Now Kadesh is an “enemy” again, so Dalinar got a refund, so to speak.
@173
I too think of the big 4 mentioned in the epigraph that Shallan is the most likely to turn heel. The other 3 have had their own crisis of conscious and have come out on the other side not unscathed, but definitely on the side of good (or at least good-ish, light grey as it were). Shallan hasn’t gotten a chance to play on the world stage yet and she is in deep with a secret society with no qualms about killing people to achieve their (at this point unknown) aims.
Never posted, I’m a lurking reader, but I read all posts up to now and a thought suddenly assaulted me about Dalinar’s boon / curse. We know the curse is to lose all memories of his wife and not even here her name. We know Renarin is weak, has a poor health and is awkward around Dalinar and when talking about his mother (well, he’s awkward, like always). So, maybe, Dalinar sacrificed his memories to save his son of a deadly illness. About the recovery, apart from all the theories, which are perfectly plausible, then we have another one: Renarin, as a Radiant and Progression wielder, needs the boon no more.
@176
The issue here is timing. Renarin was a Radiant early in WoR. He was the one who was writing the countdown on the walls the whole time. Dalinar became aware of Renarin’s Radiantosity (why yes, I did invent the most cumbersome word I could, thanks for asking) at the end of WoR. The curse was still visibly in place in early OB.
hi everyone. this has been pretty hashed out. once thought i didn’t see yet…i wonder if Dalinar will start engaging the Stormfather apren with Kadesh…leading to Kadesh becoming the 2nd of 3 Bondsmiths…
Since I have been looking for additional sources of drama, something came up into my mind…
The pain relieving fabrial was first seen in WoK.
I had wonder if it would come up again.
Now it has. Apparently it has been perfected.
I just can’t help to think during which circumstances it will be put to use. Or if perhaps someone created the reverse: the pain inflicting device…
Anthony Pero @90. When the ardents and village leader described the attack on the grain silo, I thought it was human thieves disguised as what they thought others might think as Voidbringers. At that point, we only had descriptions of what people thought they saw. Once Kaladin came upon the camp and saw the changed Parshmen, I realized I was wrong.
Wetlandernw @101. Knowing Evi’s name ahead of time (which I did not as I had not read the Thrill) would have spoiled my reaction when I read the scene. Had I known her name, it would have changed how I read the scene. When I first read it, my thought was “WTF. I think Navani said her name and it was not read as Shshsh. This is a Dalinar POV so it should be Shshsh. i wonder if he even realizes that he can hear her name.” Sure enough, a few lines later, Dalinar does.
FatherJames @121. That was funny
What if Dalanar can hear his wife’s name, because he now has a new wife? What if the curse was structured in such a way so that now that Navani is his current wife, the curse will cause him to now forget his past with her?
Re name reveal
I didn’t know Evi’s name prior to this, and when I first read it, I didn’t know it was his wife (I didn’t take much time to think about it, but I assumed it was either someone I didn’t already know about or someone I forgot), but after they commented on it, I suddenly understood, and there is no way I could have had a similar experience if I had known from the start (not sure which experience would be better though)
@173
I too have had the same thought. I think we have now seen 3 different versions of illusion shallan? We have the princess, the one who led the deserters and tricked sebarial. We have veil. And we have brightness radiant. We also have 3 books, it could be more than a simple coincidence.
I think we may all be misinterpreting a major plot point here due to too small a sample size
1) is Dalinar the only one being affected by this failing of the old magic?
2) Is it his Boon or his Curse that is failing? or is it both?
3) If it is the KR abilities that is disrupting the old magic, is it the ability to invest, or his abilities as bondsmith doing it?
4) Could the Nightwatcher be doing this herself? Either because she has bonded someone or for some other hidden purpose?
Lisamarie @157:
True, but my point is that we are far more likely to suppress negative things than positive things.
Here’s a possible twist: maybe the last truth has to be a positive one. I can see it now:
@184: I think it’s Investiture. Dalinar was able to hear his first wife’s name while still holding a little Stormlight.
If the Nightwatcher is revoking boons and curses now (and we’ve seen 2 examples of visitors having things they were granted reversed in Lyft’s growing up and Dalinar’s memories restored) does that mean the Diagram is finished? Are King T’s days of variable intelligence over? And if so, what if he gets stuck on a really stupid or really smart day? If he reverts back to the intelligence level he posessed prior to his visit then just how smart was he?
Don’t know if this theory has been discussed or not, but what if the Nightwatcher isn’t really of Cultivation?
What if, instead, the Nightwatcher is really one of the Unmade? The boon/curse construction seems more like a baited trap that a splinter of Odium could use to influence and control those who are broken (and hence have the potential to become Knights Radiant)? This would serve Odium’s ultimate end of diverting the broken pre-radiants from the path towards bonding a spren and could potentially have the benefit of forcing them along an advantageous course of action for Odium’s long term plan.
If this is the case, then the fact that the boon/curse falls away as the Spirit webs of the progressing radiants are further filled with connection to the shardic power that they are connected with makes sense, and would also explain Dalinar’s loss of the Thrill.
Also, what if the 10 surges are derived from both Cultivation and Honor? The surges of progression, illumination, transformation and transportation seem to me to align more readily with the intent of Cultivation than with honor, while Adhesion, Cohesion, Friction, Gravity and Tension have inherent qualities that more closely align with the intent of Honor.
@184 @187 many others about Dalinar remembering: I think the story is very clearly leading us to connect both Lift and Dalinar losing the restrictive part(s?) of their Nightwatcher deals. I guess it’s possible that it’s a red herring, but I think the mystery is intended to be “What’s the connection?” and “Why now?” rather than “What coincidence could make these almost identical phenomena happen in the same time frame but not be connected?” I could obviously be wrong, but I think it makes the most sense to have a common cause for two new Radiants to lose the Old Magic curse or boon.
The stormlight from the Nahel Bond/budding Radiantness somehow healing/blocking those changes is a prime candidate. I also think the Nightwatcher choosing to reverse the conditions against precedent — and why not if the Stormfather can capriciously send a Highstorm to wipe out those whom Honor was trying to save? — makes sense because of the oncoming Desolation. Didn’t Lift’s spren, the one purposefully sent by a council to combat the Desolation, call the Nightwatcher “Mother?” So could the Nightwatcher be changing her M.O. after centuries just like the spren that she mothers/councils with/is worshipped by?
@43
I think one of Taravingian’s interludes (I-11 maybe) in Words indicated that the thrill was tied to one of the unmade whom used to be in Alethkar, influencing the people there. He indicated in that chapter that the unmade had since moved towards Jah Kaved – and had played a part in tbe brutality of the civil war. After this, during Adolin’s fight with Eshonai he found himself unable to feel the Thrill.
@26
What if it was his marriage to Navani that changed the curse somehow? He’s been sucking in stormlight for months now, but still hadnt heard her name. But only recently did he get married – and suddenly he could hear Eri’s name. Maybe that has something to do with it?
I haven’t seen this one before, but how about Kadash as the author of the epigraphs? Dalinar is the one who “saw further”, and Kadash is a radiant of one of the orders with Transportation. His first experience in Shadesmar he almost dies, and Dalinar thinks he is in fact dead. Also as an ardent forced to accept their god is dead, he’d definitely be considered a heretic, but he could also be a man who knows how to write. Bit of a stretch, maybe?
@@@@@ various posters:
I think we need to see if others are losing their curses from the Nightwatcher before we can truly speculate in what is causing it. So far we have only seen the effect in two people both of whom are bonded to spren. If we see that the same is happening to people who have NOT bonded spren then the speculation can go in completely different directions.
I am also curious as to whether people are losing both the boon and the curse. We do not know the entire details of what either Dalinor or Lyft asked for and recieved. The answer to that could tell us much
I am relieved that Dalinar is taking the Honorblade very seriously, which pretty much precludes him just giving it to Elokhar, as I have been fearing. OTOH, hiding it instead of at least temporarily taking it up was very dumb, as it is very likely to get stolen and wandering through the corridors alone is liable to get the now weaponless Dalinar killed. He is too used to being unstoppable, as this chapter amply shows, and this is very dangerous in his current relatively defenseless state.
Godessimho @156:
Wouldn’t Kaladin taking up Jezrien’s Honorblade be pretty much a waste, seeing how he already has the Windrunner surges? Dalinar could, at least get an extra surge out of it and quickly visit various places in order to negotiate in person.
Oh, yea, and Dalinar remembering Evi seems reminiscent of Lift growing up, despite her boon of remaining unchanged. Also, makes it more likely that Lift is actually older than is apparent, as some have suggested previously. I really hope that she doesn’t lose her ability to produce stormlight from food and her connection to the Cognitive, though!
And they have _just_ invented watches instead of them being unbiquitious, so this doesn’t entirely dispel my “just a sec” objection. But OK.
Nice continuation of ex-parshmen with Kaladin plot-line, though I really hope that he remembers the need to somehow let Dalinar know of this development. As is, Dalinar’s warnings about the danger of parshmen are likely to rebound in 2 terrible ways: those who believe them are going to murder the parshmen (did Mr T. conduct a wholesale slaughter of them in areas under his control?), while those who don’t are likely to see him as misguided and ignore him in the future.
BTW, it doesn’t make any sense that this small group would be able to carry all the foodstores intended to last a whole village for a season. And, in fact, there just aren’t enough sacks in their camp for that. So, did they share the stolen food with some other parshmen groups? Or did the villagers/local lord steal the rest, hoping to pull one over Kaladin and get reimbursed by the king for the whole amount?
Shallan’s forebodings about Urithiru are already justified. Not the way I imagined this investigation going, but this is certainly very intriguing. I hope that they won’t be forced to leave the place, but if it is an evil spren/Unmade, what are the options for getting rid of it? I mean, methods for “killing”/banning Odium-spren must exist or the Desolations would have been unbeatable, but like so much else they have been thoroughly forgotten. I really don’t see the culprit being an Aimian, as some have suggested, unless it is a mad one, as they seem to be in favor of surges and Radiants returning.
Oh, and Shallan is not doing at all well, of course – but the one thing that hasn’t been mentioned so far is that it is becoming increasingly clear that what Shallan considers her real self is no such thing. I mean, nobody sees how haunted she is when she is “Shallan”, but Veil, who has been created explicitily to escape “Shallan’s” pain and limitations is literally radiating her brokenness.
And I now think that Shallan is the author of “The Oathbringer” epigraphs:
They are clearly written by a Vorin woman – i.e. references to (only) women reading the book, experience being “her”, etc.
The woman is clearly uncomfortable with being considered a heretic – we now know that Shallan is, or used to be, pretty devote.
Revulsion towards being seen as a shining hero is reflected in her chapters and is one of the things that lead to Radiant’s creation.
She has tasted spicy food in a previous chapter, the epigraph here refers to it.
Experience is the theme writ large in this chapter, also referenced in the epigraph.
Shadesmar connection is self-explanatory and given Shallan’s accelerating mental desintegration, she is likely on the way to “something worse” than death.
Ben @154:
remember he’s been around since the beginning of time as far as sentience on Roshar is concerned
I don’t think that this is true. The Parshendi history songs mentioned in WoR strongly hint that the Listeners predated arrival of the Shards to Roshar and that they were seduced by Odium at some point, who exploited their conflicts with and jealousy of humans.
@101 I actually had Evi’s name spoiled on tvtropes, of all places, but honestly I’d say it actually made the scene better – I did a double take, like, “what? why is her name spelled out like that?” and otherwise I would have just skimmed over it, thinking it was some other as-of-yet-unnamed NPC until Dalinar’s reaction clued me in otherwise.
Heh. A bit off the topic, but seeing it in Isilel’s comment reminded me again. A few weeks back when I first saw somebody mentioning Mr. T, my initial thought was “What the heck has B. A. Baracus to do with the SA?”. Then the light dawned on me …
Regardin Evi’s reveal, I did not know it beforehand, so I cannot say for sure, but I think it worked better this way, being unspoiled. I read the name, then thought to myself: “Did she just mention Dalinar’s wife? In Dalinar’s chapter? What the Storms is going on? It cannot be random. Can it be …?” And a few lines later, bang!
So sweet to see Kal taking care of the Parshmen, I especially liked the scenes with the little girl.
And, mirroring others, I, too, am a bit worried about Shallan. If Pattern is worried about her … this can’t be good.
I know it has been addressed already, but after all this discussion last week, I really laughed when Dalinar’s watch with three pointers was described. So spot on.
ED: Re Evi, I don’t know why, but for some reason, it always feels a bit funny for me to read fantasy with all these … exotic-sounding? names and then find among them a name that is totally used as a regular name in your country …
I think the way the Nightwatcher boon / curse works is tied to Cultivation. For Dalinar his bond got taken over by Honor so it makes sense for it to slowly replace / fix the Nightwatcher stuff. On the other hand, Lift is bonded to a Cultivation spren, so whatever Nightwatcher did for her (investiture from food) still (mostly) holds.
The second thought I had reading this was about the Recreance; what if that was ripping Connection and Identity investitures from “voidbringers” and turning them into parshmen. I mean, it was never explained how exactly they were made slaves. The Heralds never mention it, they don’t appear in Dalinar’s visions. So, maybe, the Radiants did that to them and in doing so killed a few races of spren that were bonded with the “parshendi” at the time. And that severely affected their existing spren.
@@@@@ all the people who are theorizing Dalinar will start to forget Navani now that she’s his wife.. While it makes for very good storytelling, I really hope this won’t happen. :( It’s just too horrible and sad. When they got married in chapter 4 I had to spoil myself before reading the actual wedding just to make sure he could still hear her name at the end.
@@@@@171 Wizard72. I agree with you about Kaladin. I definitely feel that people are wrong when they say he’s prejudiced, when his anger comes from a lot of bad experiences with lighteyes of all ranks, so he’s more cynical and jaded than prejudiced. But even then his experience is very different from what the parshmen as a people suffered. We’ve seen in WoK that even darkeyes look down on parshmen and I’m glad so far the story realizes this difference and seems to address it with care.
@@@@@179 Gepeto. Didn’t some of the artwork from Navani’s sketchbook in the Way of Kings show us a ‘pain knife’? It looks more like a taser than the watch described here, but maybe someone will figure out how to switch the pain relieving device to a different setting. Or maybe it’s the start of a running gag where Dalinar is constantly late because he sucked the stormlight out of his watch and now it doesn’t work. :)
@@@@@193 Isilel. Shallan being the author is very interesting. There have been a lot of theories, but I don’t think that option has been mentioned before. I wonder why she would call it Oathbringer though.. Maybe it’s a story about the oaths of the Knights Radiant and why they are so important/why they were broken/should be broken again/something else. Or maybe it’s the story of Sadeas’ murder, the investigation, the double murders, the finding of Oathbringer (the sword), and the consequences, leading up to.. something happening.
OMG!!! Pattern likes Adolin. :-) Well, Pattern, you are in good company. And just for that… you are now my favorite spren. xoxo :-)
@187 re: Taravangian also losing his boon/curse
I hadn’t thought of that but that would be huge. Just thinking out loud:
It could be something that rocks that whole movement. On the other hand, in WOR it was established that the chances of a perfect day happening again was next to 0. I’m sure, as the days go on, the leadership behind the diagram would just conceal that T had lost his varying intelligence. Also, the people supporting the diagram have essentially faith in its inspiration. That kind of faith, I don’t think, would be rocked by the news.
However, the farther we get from that day of brilliance the less relevant I think it will become. He would need a new day to update the path its suggesting. So I suppose that would make the group’s origins/motivations also irrelevant. However, the diagram has led to power for its followers. I think that alone would keep the group around and a thorn in Dalinar’s side. Pardon the pun.
My final thought, is that they will stick around regardless of whether or not T is losing his super power. At least until the desolation has caused enough destruction.
sheighlagh @198, it is so cute, isn’t it? I’m so happy he likes him. I think I still like Syl a little better, but I adore Pattern more with every chapter. The way he proposed to die just so Shallan might feel better … heartbreaking.
I can’t wait for a meeting between Syl, Pattern and Wyndle :)
@@@@@ many re: the name reveal
I actually did read The Thrill, however remember next to nothing. I do remember the seen where Evi comes into the room but didn’t remember her name. So when the name appeared I had no idea and had a similar experience of doing a double take along with Dalinar. I’m glad it went down the way it did. I got to find out along with Dalinar and that was really cool. Looking forward to what this means for the future.
“I’m fine with moving up the time,” Dalinar said. “I’ll await you in the writing chamber.”
“Why?” Dalinar said, waving a hand. “It’s not like she can see me. Set up here.”
Typo.
I don’t think the painrail took the boon/curse away as he needs to press his hand on it to make it work.
How did they get it all so small? he wondered, shaking the device. Set into the leather, it also had a painrial—a gemstone fabrial that would take pain from him if he pressed his hand on it.
Matthew McKay @202
It’s been stated before, but it’s not a typo, rather an effect of transferring the original text into this format. There have been several like this in the prerelease chapters. It should read (and will when you get the book):
Also, count me among those that’s starting to be afraid that Shallan could become Odium’s champion. She’ll have to come a long way in terms of swordplay/combat in general but whatever the case she’s not very mentally healthy right now.
Re: WoB for Oathbringer – Could we not talk about them? Not spoil the hunt for others that are here?
All the talk last week about the use of “Played.” This week it is used twice, in different context and no one makes a peep.
Of course Jor did ask: “Was I just played for a fool?” Rather than, “Was I just played?”
Sorry Jor, you were a lesson for Shallan / Veil.
And yes, Dalainar having a wrist watch was at first odd. On Roshar, they obviously have very good clockworks. The concept of seconds is strong on Roshar.
The storm clock is the more interesting clock. I really hope it is more a countdown clock, than a computer that does all the calculations to reset itself highstorm after highstorm. I flat out refuse to think of it as a micro-computer. So someone has to reset the stormclock.
@121, FatherJames – LOL! Thanks for the earworm.
Then I saw her face, now I’m a believer Not a trace of doubt in my mind I’m in love I’m a believer, I couldn’t leave her if I tried
Re: Dalinar – forgetting his wife –
I find the theory that he might forget his wife, Navani, while she is standing next to him – to be very Stephen King, not Brandon Sanderson.
@195, Celebrinnen: Common names. Yep. I know an Evi. Now the debate is how is it pronounced here. Some are suggesting is sounds like a cute Pokémon some might know.
The name May, for the highprince’s daughter is the one I’m wondering if it’s a Tuckerization.
The beta have a headcannon that Jor is our Jory. The two don’t look alike, but we like our theory.
EDIT: It’s now been confirmed by Brandon. Jor is our Jory. Look for his name in the Acknowledgments. :-D
Re: Trapped in Shadow – I’m sad about the lack of comment this statement has generated. I was moved to near tears during reading his speech.
Hoiditthroughthegrapevine@188:
In that case, why is Wyndle, a Cultivationspren, referring to the Nightwatcher as “Mother”?
Reading thought the comments and I too find the time spent with Rial was odd. I agree he is either a plant/spy, a world hopper or someone of future importance.
I guess the guard could be Wayne but I doubt he would have been a bridgeman because he can talk his way out of anything or into anything with the right hat on. Although if he was his gold and bendalloy would have made him very hard to kill.
I wonder how internal powers like allomancy and feralchamy would work on other planets because we know vasher can’t translate stormlight to be used like breath besides sustaining his life.
@208:
Seems to me like that would work on a case-by-case basis. In the case of allomancy and Feruchemy, what carries the Investiture is metals. I think that Allomancers and Feruchemists would need to have metals from Scadrial, ones Invested by the presence of Ruin and Perseverence (now Harmony) to make their craft work. We have seen Wit/Hoid use Allomancy on Roshar, so we know it can be done.
In the case of Breath, the Investiture is transmitted internally, and doesn’t expire. So, while Zahel can’t use Stormlight as Breath to Awaken things, if he had any Breath left, he could still use it. So, its possible that Zahel has Breath, and is feeding his Returned body the Stormlight, so as not to use up all his Breath.
We find out that Wit/Hoid has achieved at least the Second Heightening in Words of Radiance. We know he currently has that Breath in him, because he mentions that its much easier for him to play his instrument than it used to be now that he has perfect pitch. So, that part of the magic still works on Roshar, for sure.
And of course, since everyone else on Roshar is essentially a Drab, no one would notice any colors brightening around Wit, or Zahel.
More thoughts…
What does everyone think Dalinar will with the Iriali? Take away Adolin’s Plate? Forge an alliance by marrying one of his sons to a member of the Iriali royal family? Is there anyone still having a valid claim over Adolin’s Plate?
Will Adolin finally have more of a reaction or will he just hand away his Plate, doing as he is told without any visible emotional turmoil?
Is Shallan progressing or regressing? I have read theories stating Brightness Radiant is terribly negative for her (and is caused by crippling issues into her relationship with Adolin, but let’s skip this part). Other theories are saying Shallan is currently sinking, indulging into alcohol and overall spiralling downward.
I did not get this feeling, I thought the behavior we were witnessing was a side-effect of her remembering. She needs to adjust and to re-evaluate how many lies she told herself and how many truths. I thought the other personalities existed to help her do it, but then again Pattern seems to think it is negative.
Thoughts? I may have skipped comments, so sorry if someone else already had answers above.
Edit: I don’t think there is anything special about Rial. He is General’s Khal’s second son. Dalinar probably knows him since birth. I can’t see the rational as to how he may be someone more important.
From the NAMI website so you all kind of get a better idea of what’s going on with Shallan.
I see Dissociative Amnesia as a problem for her at times. And she certainly has some depersonalization going on which is an additional specifier to her PTSD. But I don’t think she can be described as having DID, not yet at least. She doesn’t have memory gaps with what she does as her personas and describes diving deeper into the illusion, which is certainly dangerous, and she’s finding the deeper she goes the less she feels (depersonalization).
As with any fantasy narrative, our mileage may vary when it comes to applying our medical framework to the book.
Dryone@128:
Yes, but emotional pain and physical pain aren’t exactly the same thing. One has to do with nerve endings and the nervous systems, and the other with thoughts. Two different parts of the brain. And, in the case of the Cosmere, two different parts of reality, as well. I would think (again, just an opinion) that the painreal would interrupt information from the nervous system before the brain has a chance to interpret it. This wouldn’t have any effect on “emotional pain.” Other than making someone feel more relaxed.
FSS@178
I know what you meant to write when you typed “Stormfather apren” but I read it as Stormfather apron. Which created quite the image in my head. I mean, how big would that apron have to be? And would it help keep everything in the kitchen clean due to it’s sheer scale? Or would it blow away anything that wasn’t robustly built and facing the right direction? Talk about a Warbreaker moment. I bet Vasher could make a few. They would sell like gang busters on Roshar
CireNaes@211:
I miss the deep philosophical and thoughtful commentary you used to bring to the WoT discussions. Its great to have you back here!
This really helps illustrate the dangers my comments @90 were trying to articulate. Her psyche seems to have used DA as a coping mechanism when she was a child, and now that she can’t do that anymore, she is intentionally disassociating herself in order to hide from the emotional pain of her childhood. In the real world, she absolutely would be at risk of DID. But in a fantasy setting? We’ve already one Cosmere example of magically rewriting your Identity, and being able to swap back and forth between them, with Soul Stamping in The Emperor’s Soul. So, I think there’s a mechanism for her to do this safely. However, she runs the risk of having one of these other personalities, once they are formed more fully, block her from returning to Shallan, in order to spare her from the pain. In specific, what could happen is that the aspect could chose to create another Shallan. One that didn’t do those things. Real world consequences could be the loss of her powers, like Kaladin experienced. Those Truths are her Oaths.
@210 gepeto I think you’re conflating two characters. Rial is a bridgeman from bridge 13 and gets a bit cheeky with Dalinar. Aratin Khal is General Khal’s second son, who wrestles Dalinar. I too am curious about Rial’s unexpected dialogue.
I appreciate that, thanks. I wish I could do deeper dives with these books and I do love me some psycho theological integrative work, but my wife defends her dissertation the first week of December and everything about our lives have been focused towards that. It’s our own personal Brandon avalanche and it gets faster the closer we get to the date.
Add in some pastoral obligations, military stuff to attend to, and a mental health license to maintain and you have a recipe for light reading. We homeschool too. My wife prefers classical curriculums and that’s not possible in the school systems we have available to us. Plus it’s a better fit for my son’s autism.
If I could just get rid of the charting I would have so much more free time. It feels less like an aid to counseling and more like joy suckers attached to my fingertips and eyeballs.
If anything, I’m leaning rather heavily on the better commenters here to keep abreast of nuances related to the Cosmere series. So I really appreciate yourself and others here to help decompress from my day to day.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. This is one of the best “book club” experiences I’ve ever had
And this website really hates iOS for iPad. It never registers my last sentences’ period and deletes words at random when I post using the quick reply button.
No issues with laptop/desktop browsers though so far.
Hah! The period is back! I think I’m losing it.
You might just want to keep Google Docs open and type your comments in there, then paste. I’m sure the issue is with the WYSIWYG editor on this site and the iOS version of Safari
@@@@@ 210 Gepeto. Rial is the flippant and rather outspoken bridgeman who guards Dalinar and who oversees the fights. Aratin is General Khal’s second son, the wrestler with the slightly too small head. I think people are focusing on Rial as a potential worldhopper because both his light skin and accent are noted. I think it’s more probable that Brandon simply wants to introduce more characters into the story (Rial, May, Aratin). During WoR a lot of newly named bridgemen suddenly appeared as well.
@@@@@214 Anthony Pero. There was a bit of a debate going on about soulstamping vs lightweaving in the comments of last week’s chapters. I find it worrying that Shallan creates so many new personas to hide from herself, rather than how Shai creates them based on absolute knowledge of her subject (herself). it seems that now Shallan can’t push the memories away, she has instead chosen to hide herself away from them.
Also, part of the way I keep up is with an Audible subscription, but I have 90 minutes of driving at minimum every day. But any actual household chores I do usually are done with bluetooth headphones on.
@220:
This is her crisis, like Amaram was Kaladin’s. In real life, we frequently cling to things that are harmful to us, because they protect us or strengthen us in some way, and we are afraid to be without it. Kaladin had to learn to let go of the hate he felt that kept him going. Shallan will have to learn to accept herself as she is without hiding from the pain that the Truth brings her. In both cases, they were using comping mechanisms to function within their pain, rather than dealing with that pain.
Part of the reason people ship Kaladin and Shallan is that they romanticize that connection. But in real life, such connections often lead to codependency.
@222 Anthony Pero. Yeah, it’s probably very clear by now that this is going to be Shallan’s struggle for this book and will probably continue for longer than that. You can’t heal trauma like that in the relatively short amount of time these books take up. But I am somehow much more worried about Shallan’s journey now than I was about Kaladin’s. There has been some backsliding here and there but both Kaladin and Dalinar have gone through a mostly positive development. At the end of each book they were able to recover a bit more each time.
Kaladin from the early bridge four days as a slave to becoming a leader to starting to let go of his cynicism and anger towards lighteyes, and he is starting to tackle these problems in a more productive way. Dalinar let go of his worry that he was insane, then his guilt over his brother’s death and gained a lot of confidence in his new (more un-Alethi) way of doing things. Shallan seems to grow in some ways, like her confidence and indepence, but she’s really stagnating and/or struggling in a lot of the other areas.
I predict that as OB progresses, Shallan will use alcohol as an escape mechanism in the same way that she uses her different personas: to compartmentalize things she does not want to face. She knows that unlike a “normal” alcoholic, when she Investitures, Shallan burn away the effects of the alcohol. But until she does that, she can remain drunk. Evventually, Dalinar will realize that she is starting down the path he was. I am convinced there is a history of alcoholism in Dalinar’s family. He was an alcoholic and in WoR, his nephew on his side of the family started drinking heavily. Dalinar will help Shallan cope with her drinking problem before it becomes too severe. This will lead Shallan to speaking another Truth that has to do with her different personas. That they are not separate characters with no connection to Shallan herself. Rather, these different personas are all part of Shallan. They are different faces she wears depending upon the situation.This truth will let her grow more and even allow her to switch between these core personas (Veil, Brightness Radiant, the Princess who convinced the deserters to fight in WoR) without drawing them first.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
Anthony Pero@206
Interesting about Wyndle calling the Nighwatcher “Mother”, I hadn’t recalled that.
That’s the fun thing about speculation, it’s all as shaky of a house of cards but it’s fun to see how tall a structure you can make out of so little.
In service to the spirit of wild speculation, how about this little hummer.
So, why are Odium, Honor and Cultivation the three Shards that invest Roshar. Obviously the intent of Odium would need to be contained, and Honor seems as likely a primary intent to pair against hatred/rage as any that I can think of, but where does Cultivation fit in?
Sanderson writes symbolically, the pairings of the other Dishardic worlds we have seen attest to this, Devotion vs. Dominion on Sel, Ruin vs. Preservation on Scadrial. The monoshardic worlds also show a similar thoughtfullness, Autonomy wouldn’t want to share a world and Ambition probably couldn’t.
So that leaves us with the interesting question of why Odium would choose (and I believe the vessel Rayse probably had a say in the matter) to be invested in a world with Honor and Cultivation? The obviousness of hatred needing an object, and nothing is easier to rail against than sanctimonous honor devoid of an object, but where does Cultivation fit in.
Here’s the speculative theory bit. Just like Ruin agreed to Preservation’s deal to help construct and invest Scadrial because he was promised the oppurtunity to destroy it at some future time, I believe that Odium likewise has a bargain with Cultivation. Honor is obviously something that takes positive effort to maintain, i.e. one can cultivate a sense of honor, but likewise what if there is a negative aspect of cultivation, like the cultivation of bad habits? Might the powers of Cultivation be partially allied with both Honor and Odium, and maybe, building the speculative super structure even higher, what if the Nightwatcher is a splinter of Cultivation that is somehow bound to Odium. The curse/boon construct just seems to have such horrible downsides, that I feel like there has to be some influence from the most odious shard of them all.
Also, along those lines, what if Cultivation is primarily invested in Shinovar? Why is this the only land that the High Storms never reach? Why do the Shin consider it sacrilegious to walk on stone, do they need to maintain a more primal connection to the living earth perhaps?
Also, the rest of Roshar has flora like nothing else in the cosmere, while I believe there is a WoB that states that the flora is not sentient, it still seems to meet some of the other requirements that generally separate animal from plant. Could this be like Preservation spreading himself thinly over Thadrax city to dispel the influence of Ruin, could cultivation be likewise weakly invested in the rest of Roshar and primarily invested in Shinovar? And could the Nightwatcher be a splinter of Cultivation that can then have a presence in a non-Shin, rocky location because a pact was made with Odium. I am reminded of Kadsal’s discussion of sonic resonances and how all of the major cities in Roshar were built along a pattern that can be recreated with sound waves moving grains of sand on a plate, what if, like in Sel, the land is a manifestation of the interaction between the 3 shardic investitures. Odium is of the rocks, Cultivation is of the plants and living things, and Honor is of the sky.
Ok, think that’s enough for now, just glancing casually at this tower of cards is likely to make it topple.
Re: Odium champion
“Your enemy is not a man like you, the Stormfather replied, voice rumbling, thoughtful. Even… frightened. He does not age. He feels. He is angry. But this does not change, and his rage does not cool. Epochs can pass, and he will remain the same.”
So… not any of the characters already mentioned? My best guess is that we haven’t seen him yet.
@193 isilel you may be right, I’ll check those again but I believe those songs were created after the Recreance? So they could someday find their forms again after taking on dullform to escape their gods
Also @225 hoid, what if Cultivation is also dead and the Nightwatcher is her spren like the StormFather is Honors? Syl calls him father just like Pattern calls her Mother…..
Braid_Tug @205, IMHO, the funny thing is, you don’t even have to go very far. Just a country or two away, or to look farther from what you are used to seeing/hearing in your usual books and TV, and already the names are starting to sound exotic. I suppose we are so used to our everyday environment that everything slightly different already catches our attention, and the effect is especially strong when turned upside down. If I’m making any sense.
And I have no idea how the correct pronunciation on Roshar goes, or even how the one you know is pronounced, but this sounds pretty close to our version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGq7FRfoYk0
Evi is common (according to the national statistics it was the 89th most popular name in Estonia with 1988 Evis in January 2017), but almost as much is Eevi (173th with 1079 Eevis) and we often really drag the E there.
After reading The Thrill I figured Dalinar’s memories would be restored. Now I’m kinda wishing I had posted such thoughts on 17th shard, but I don’t post often. :P
I think there have been some good (and bad) theorizing going on here. I like the link to the painreel, though I’m not convinced its the actual cause.
My reasoning is this: Dalinar’s wife, Evi was kidnapped and presumably died in a bad way when he tried to rescue her. It was such a horrible event that Kadesh could no longer be a soldier. He fled to the Ardentia to presumably save his own soul.
Dalinar, supposes he must have been terribly hurt by Evi’s loss. He can’t piece things together.
I think it stands to reason that Dalinar went to the Nightwatcher to take away his pain over his wife’s death. I think it quite possible Dalinar even killed his own wife.
*white out spoiler* In The Thrill we see just how far gone Dalinar becomes with the THRILL. He almost murders his own brother. Evi reminds him to be a man instead of an animal. Dalinar is haunted by all the death he has dealt. Its also likely why he drinks himself under the table so much.
I don’t know just how horrible Evi’s death was or how horrible Dalinar was when she died. but I suspect forgetting his wife may have been the boon.
@167. Warbreaker What’s happening to the Parshmen fits Sanderson’s style. He does not seem to write character wthat become corrupted without Consent.
You seem to be forgetting Marsh. He had no idea what he was agreeing to, and he committed many stomach turning atrocities against his own will.
@59 pretty sure we had confirmation that the Thrill was the result of an Odium greatspren beneath Alethkar. Like the one below the healer-city that causes the death rattles
And I get the feeling that something has happened to the Nightmother.
@225:
I believe its implied that Odium showed up later, after destroying Shards on other worlds. Honor and Cultivation found Roshar already populated (with the Parshendi and some other species) and brought, or created, humans once there. Then, at some point after visiting Sel and a few other planets, Odium arrived and tried to destroy Honor and Cultivation as well. Something about the Oathpact keeps Odium from leaving the system now.
@226:
I believe that passage refers to Odium itself, not Odium’s Champion.
@@@@@ 209, AP: But Roshar and Earthling are NOT Drabs. Someone asked about that. On Nalthis, people have extra rich / invested souls. But regular humans in the Cosmere are not Drabs. They could take on Breath if the wanted. They would not read as a Drab to the people of Nalthis, either.
Sorry I don’t have the exact quote handy. I believe it was asked during the RAFOlympics panel. WoB from JordanCon 8, I think.
Speaking of multiple personalities: Brandon Tweeted that he just finished writing the final Legion book! So exited. I hope it is released next year.
Not sure if anyone has raised this theory, but is it possible that the Nightwatcher is Cultivation. Both are referred to as female and it would make sense since Wyndle, a Cultivation spren, refers to the Nightwatcher as Mother.
Braid_Tug@234:
I think I must have misspoken. My point wasn’t that people would register as Drabs to Zahel and Wit, my point was that Zahel and Wit wouldn’t stand out if they had a lot of Breath to the people of Roshar. They don’t have the capacity to see the color shifts and other telltale signs of an Awakener with many Breaths.
@235:
That would be the logical conclusion, since I’ve been informed that WoB says Cultivation was still alive as of WoR.
My heart goes out to the former parshmen. Not only have they been enslaved for generations, but their entire sense of self as individuals and as a race have been taken from them. I can imagine they would do anything not to go back to the way things were. Kaladin has an urgent task ahead of him. I think the parshmen can could be great allies if they are allowed the freedom to live their lives as they want, but there are thousands of years of ingrained beliefs in humans about the parshmen, and they will expect to recapture their former property. The parshmen’s anger could be easily turned against humanity if humans try to enslave them again. Very few people have Kaladin’s perspective as a slave, so he has his work cut out for him if he wants to prevent the parshmen and humans from turning on each other.
I am concerned about the honorblade being left lying around. Dalinar says he masked his movements, but how? Unless he can make himself invisible, it seems that anyone could follow him. It was interesting that Dalinar asked Stormfather to watch over the sword, but SF says he cannot see into the physical realm very clearly. I’ve been curious how tangible the interactions are between Stormfather and Dalinar. I assume it is more of a telepathic or mental connection, without much happening on the sensory/physical realm.
I get the sense the Odium’s Champion is not a physical person, maybe a spren? It seems Dalinar assumes that he will be Honor’s champion, then after losing the wrestling match he thinks Kaladin might be a better Champion. However, if Odium’s Champion is not human, the fight may not be a physical one. It will be interesting to see what type of fight it turns out to be, and how the Champions are chosen or revealed.
Aw, Navani called Dalinar “gemheart.” I like their interactions in this chapter, they make a great team.
My speculations on the mysterious spren: it is not bonded to any of the Parsh-people yet nor leading them, but rather scouting out a likely candidate for bonding, and maybe trying to influence the Parsh-people to have the correct mindset and find the rhythm to bond with it at the next Everstorm. If that’s the case, Kaladin may be able to disrupt the spren’s intentions by helping and befriending the Parsh-people, and it may just leave to seek out another candidate. Assuming that Odium spren have been on Roshar all along but the Listeners and Parshmen just forgot how to bond them, could one of these spren have influenced Venli et al to seek out stormform? There was mention of a voice heard by Parshendi in the prologue, possibly one of these spren.
Still catching up on comments but I believe strongly:
@134. rainer3 is on to something.
Also, is it just me that LOVES WOB’s but absolutely HATES he told us about *roll over for potential spoilers* Viv prior to release? I like him confirming it after the fact, after people figure it out; not dropping hints that make me question every single female non-main character. IMO he flubbed on this WOB.
Note: message edited by moderator to white out potential spoilers.
It is my belief, and has been since WoR that adolin will be honors champion. His entire life had been centered on his calling, which is dueling, and while he may end up as any one of the orders, there has been much foreshadowing of him being the best with a blade anywhere on roshar. It was even said in WoR that he is better at dueling than dalinar used to be.
@240 @134 Dalinar and Adolin both had very impactful experiences witnessing the slaughter of Parshendi without the Thrill in the last two books. This more conscious rejection could be significant, but it seems to me like more of a continuation of their process of internalizing a whole new ethic/morality/culture not based on “might makes right.” Adolin also consciously pushed down the Thrill during one of his duels. He’s not a Radiant as of yet, but we didn’t observe any specific changes stemming from that event.
@239: I didn’t follow all of the comments after the prologue, so this is probably a repeat. Among others, I commented during the WoR reread that it definitely was implied that Venli was already familiar with void forms, and that the Scholar Form with “ambitions innate” could easily explain the relatively rapid advances in discovering new forms. My “firm” theory for now is that Venli ended up with the second black sphere that Gavilar gave to Eshonai in the Oathbringer prologue, along with the voidspren that was inside.
And as one of those who commented on the Alethi cultural and scientific knowledge of seconds last week, I laughed out loud when Dalinar commented both on the seconds being known and included on his fabrial and also that he thought no one would be interested in those. If this were not just prewritten chapters, I would swear that Brandon was trolling us all.
Braid_Tug (again :D) @234: I missed that tweet! Really?! That’s excellent news! Can’t wait to find out what Stephen and his aspects are about to now!
(and damn, for some reason I now always picture Tobias as played by Morgan Freeman)
Dang. There’s so much to comment on that I can’t keep my thoughts straight to remember it all in one comment. As a continuation to my thoughts about the sphere, I think the original sphere that Szeth hid is like a ticking Chekov’s bomb. I have no idea how Szeth will handle it. It seems like he could hide it somewhere really remote with Windrunner powers, so I think it’s not a worry of someone else finding it like with the Honorblade in the pipes, but what Szeth will choose to do with whatever knowledge he does or does not gain about the Desolations and spren.
I think it likely contains another type of Voidspren that is one of the worse forms in the song epigraphs in WoR. I forget the names, but the ones that dissolve things and some other scary powers that I am forgetting. Szeth was punished for being knowledgeable about and watchful against Voidbringers, so I don’t think he will purposefully aid the Voidbringers/Odium. However, he could easily have false ideas about what it is and use the sphere with good intentions…possibly releasing the red spren that made the thunderclast/rock creature in Dalinar’s vision in the Purelake? We know they’re coming from the cover, and that sphere could be the source.
I also think the distinct possibility of Taravangian losing his gift and boon was an awesome catch by other commenters. Does he share any of whatever is causing the loss, or would the Nightwatcher just rescind them? Assuming he was at least above average beforehand to already know of the Desolations and request the capability of stopping them, how long would it take him and/or others to notice?
@234 @244 The Tweet said that Brandon finished “chapter one” of the Legion story. So we have another couple of days or so before he finishes the whole thing while simultaneously doing his grocery shopping.
@232 and @227:
Now that you say it, I do believe that is the case, that Odium came to Roshar after it was invested by Cultivation and Honor, and also that Cultivation is still alive. Another house of cards blown down, but hey that just leaves a clean table to start all over again. I still feel like something is very wrong with the Nightwatcher…
Does anyone else think that Roshar pre-odium would be like watching the Itchy and Scratchy show after Marge’s campaign to stop cartoon violence? Like all they can do is drink lemonade on the porch and rock in their rocking chairs?
“Oh, those are lovely rockbuds you have made” says Tanavast.
“Why thank you, the uniforms of your soldiers are so nicely starched and pressed.” says Cultivation.
@226
The Stormfather is speaking of Odium itself. Rayse is the true enemy. When the showdown occurs the Radients will be fighting Rayse’s representative.
I read Pattern’s, “NO MATING,” in a Dalek voice.
@224: I hope not. I agree alcoholism has been identified as running into the Kholin family and I definitely agree it would be a neat arc if Dalinar were to deal with seeing the problem manifest itself within the younger generation. I however disagree it should be Shallan… It would be terribly anti-climatic, to me, if it were Shallan. It is supposed to be a Kholin family problem: Shallan is not a Kholin. If Brandon wants to explore this narrative, then I’d rather he did it with either Elhokar or one of the boys.
The Kholin family need drama right now, they have gotten boring and Shallan’s character, IMHO, has too much of it. Less would be better, for her.
re: Kaladin/Parshendi
Given the Parshendi have managed to break from Odium’s influence (perhaps for only a short time, perhaps forever), what if Voidspren could do the same?
Furthermore, what if Voidspren are just high spren Odium managed to corrupt somehow, and when they break free from his influence, they return to their natural state (honour, criptic, etc…). Whether they can remain free from Odium permanently is another unknown.
Now, if Parshendi and spren can fall under Odium’s influence, then why not humans (as others have speculated)? Furthermore,I wonder if this was part of the downfall of the KR….
Question? If Odium has nine shadows, Is one for each of the worlds? Would they need one champion from each of the worlds to defeat him? Therefore are some of the world travelers trying to find the nine champions? Would the champion need all the Honor shards?
Just something that crossed my mind and wondering if there is anything know about it, yes or no.
@252: I like it. I had a similar theory which I didn’t post. I have been thinking the Champion is made of nine people, nine people it took, maybe against their will. Nine people chosen for a specific reason.
I like the idea of the Champion not being someone specific.
@209 AP. When did Hoid/Wit use allomancy on Roshar? I completely missed it or just didn’t recognize it for what it was, feel kinda silly for this oversight on my part.
Cheers
Sndmn
Just a thought, what if Dalinar’s new watch with healing coupled with being a guinea pig allowed him to remember his wife’s name.
Gepeto @250. What evidence do you have to state as if it were a fact that “alcoholism has been identified as running into the Kholin family?” In story, we have hints that Dalinar was at one point an alcoholic. I do not recall if Dalinar or anybody else said he was an alcoholic. Likewise, we saw Elhokar start increase his drinking. If I am wrong, please correct me.
As Elhokar is the son of Dalinar’s brother, it is my opinion that Dalinar’s family had a history of alcoholism. However, at best, my opinion is based on circumstantial evidence. I would not characterize that evidence “as being identified.” If you characterize something as a fact (which, IMO I read “has been identified as” to mean) it should be a fact. As far as I can recall, there is no definitive statement in the text that Dalinar’s family has a history of alcoholism.
One of my pet peeves of commentators on these type of forums is, IMO, commentators sometimes state an opinion and justify it because they argue it a fact. A fact is a statement which can be proven true or false (in this context by the text). An opinion is an expression of a person’s feelings that cannot be proven; although opinions can be based on facts.
(To be clear, Gepeto, IMO you are not the only one on this forum to claim an opinion is a fact. Unfortunately, yours is the opinion that I saw where I decided to go on this rant. In that case, just dumb luck).
Rant over.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@254 he used it during young Shallon’s experience at the fair after she had helped Ballat but before but before her other brother.
In it he pours something into a drink and she’s about to warn her father but then he drinks it so she says nothing, he then looks at her and is surprised.
I love the increasing complexity as this book progresses. Should make for a great read. I just hope the grammatical and text errors are just in this sample and not in the actual book. It would be a shame!
@247 hoidthroughthegrapevine – I’m not sure that Cultivation is allied with Odium, but you might be onto something. It seems like she may have at least been neutral in the conflict between him and Honor, which would explain why Honor ended up dead while she’s still alive. Do we know if 5 of the honor blades are a part of Cultivation, or if all 10 were originally from Honor? That might blow a hole in that theory, if some of them are part of her.
Matt@259 — Stormfather said Honor made them from himself (in the Dalinar chapter above) and it’s the biggest infodump we’ve had so far.
@260 – yep, I’ve always just assumed they were all created by Honor, since they are all called honor blades. But then i got to wondering why half the spren that bond with radiants and copy their effects seemed to be aligned with Cultivation.
Matt@261 – IIRC Syl once told Kaladin that Honor is the force that binds things together. So I believe that if there was anyone who could command (bind) the forces of nature, even those that weren’t “his”, it was Honor.
Hmmm . . . This leads to an interesting theory that surgebinding is the magic system of Honor, whose power binds the higher spren no matter their origin. Which makes me wonder what is the native magic system of Cultivation. The Old Magic, perhaps? Nevermind, the likelihood of this theory is quite low.
—
Nobody but me thinks that “Experience” in Chapter 17 epigraph is a Shard name?
Edit: Is there a list of names that were confirmed not to be Shards?
On the Nightwatcher being connected to Cultivation (or even being her):
Has it been explicitly stated that when Lift’s Cultivation Spren mentions “Mother” she’s talking about the Nightwatcher? As I recall there is just a reference that “Mother” has blessed Lift, and we know independently that Lift has received a blessing and curse from the Nightwatcher, so we’ve naturally joined the dots. But perhaps they’re separate events, or am I missing anything?
**I have whited out the details that have come from WoBs as some may consider those spoilers**
On the relationship between Honour, Cultivation and Odium:
There are quite a few incomplete snippets of information on this. ** I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that the two people who took on the shards of Honour and Cultivation were a couple**, which would explain why they stuck together and adopted the planet together. Also, based on Odium having shattered other shards it does look like he had to have come later than those two. In these circumstances it would seem odd for Cultivation not to side entirely with Honour.
However, one of the deathrattles mentions that three ruled, but now one reigns – which seems to mean that at some point there was a fairly even balance of power between Honour, Cultivation and Odium. Odium has fought pairs of shards before and won,** but he had support from Autonomy**, so I doubt he would have been able to hold his own against two shards entirely unsupported – so it does seem there is more that hasn’t be told as otherwise a united front of two Shards would be able to overcome any single Shard.
Though the nature of the shard does end up heavily influencing the holder – as we saw with Ati and Leras who presumably were close prior to becoming Shardholders (based on their partnership). So perhaps something about the nature of Cultivation caused her to side partially with Odium as some have suggested. Though I think it’s more likely that the nature of her Shard forced her to remain actively neutral as conflict is pretty diametrically opposed to cultivating. And now that the force holding Odium in check has been defeated she’s gone into hiding as she can’t actively oppose him and knows he likely wants to shatter her next.
On a side note, **it is know that Adolnesium had a personal hand in aspects of the planets history**, so it does appear there is something important about Roshar beyond the current conflict between shards.
As for the blessings/curses of the Nightwatcher being lifted, I’d say we can be pretty sure it’s not the stormlight anaesthetic wristwatch as the same thing is happening to Lift.
The most obvious answer is that the Nightwatcher achieves the curses and boons through some sort of active investiture. It’s been shown repeatedly that already invested objects are much harder to influence through your own investiture, and that a similar principle applies to people who are invested. So as the KR progress and get more powerful, they become more heavily self-invested (investertured?) and so harder to affect with external investiture, so the effects start to fade.
Alternatively, it could be to do with the Nightwatcher either redirecting her attention or losing power over events on Roshar. If she is connected to Cultivation, it could be that as Odium gains stronger influence over Roshar her ability to use her power is diminished/blocked.
Personally I think it’s more likely to be investiture connected, but if non-KRs start losing their curses and boons it will be proven wrong. Eyes on you Mr. T.
Aon Reo@263 — it seems that Nightwatcher is to Cultivation what Stormfather was to Honor while the latter still lived.
Source at theoryland.com
It’s almost as if Roshar separated a large part of each Shard from its holder — or perhaps, on Roshar, if you had a Shard of Adonalsium, with time it would take the form of a superspren you can talk to.
@264 Thanks! I really should have known better (especially considering the content of my post). Apologies and I totally agree with you.
Oh, whoops. Should I have read the rest of your comment. Thought you were talking about mine not yours.
In that case, thank you mods.
My theory that is that Dalinar’s curse/boon wasn’t to forget Evi, but specifically wording – his wife. And that’s now Navani… So he’ll forget her instead soon.
@269 Kim (and others who believe Dalinar is about to start forgetting Navani)
I’m pretty sure it’s been confirmed that specific wording when requesting the boon isn’t important and there is no messing around with creative interpretation such as would be required for that – the Nightwatcher just listens to the request then gives the boon she thinks you deserve (along with a curse). So I don’t think this theory works.
Also, it looks like Lift is losing her boon from the Nightwatcher not to change. So it’s more likely something about being a KR interferes with how the Nightwatcher provides boons and curses, or something is diminishing/blocking the power of the Nightwatcher.
(Cosmere-related spoilers) Rial is an anagram of Liar, which makes me think he is in disguise — perhaps even Hoid in disguise, the name seems like something he would find amusing.
@263:
Sanderson is being cagey about it, but its clear from his WoB that he at least intends us to connect Mother with the Nightwatcher.
@271:
That’s a good catch. It may mean something, it may not. A reading of this Coppermine post (potential spoilers for unpublished works in that link) might be in order if you think Rial is meant as an anagram of Liar.
From the middle of the Edgedancer reread, I have to wonder why people are so thoroughly convinced that Lift’s boon is failing. If indeed the Nightwatcher granted exactly what she asked for – to not change – then yes, it would be failing.
But I’ve wondered, a lot, whether that’s actually what the Nightwatcher gave her. As just noted @270, the Nightwatcher listens to your request and then gives you what she thinks you deserve (or perhaps what she thinks you need?). What if Lift’s boon was not, as she thinks, not to change, but rather to be able to see the changes around her more clearly or something like that? I can’t believe that metabolizing food into Stormlight and seeing into the Cognitive realm are both curses, plus you’re only supposed to get one boon and one curse. So… I’m thinking that she didn’t get what she expected.
A bit later, she says
What if the part that remained unchanging was her ability to hunt food, with the bonus that she could metabolize it into Investiture, while the curse was that she could see the Cognitive realm and realize just how much everything changed around her? I strongly doubt that this looney theory would be 100% correct, but it’s a different take – and I think we need a different take, here. Because I’d never had the impression that she was ever granted exactly what she asked for. That would be a real anomaly for the Nightwatcher.
The comment about Odium’s champion being 9 individuals made me think “what group of people do we know of that come in a set of 9?” The 9 Heralds who abandoned the oath pact are what immediately came to mind.
“you are not the only one on this forum to claim an opinion is a fact.”
Anyone else reminded of the school of logic that Shallan found so annoying when she was reading in Kabranth?
Didn’t midnight essence come from the nightwatcher? Maybe the curse/boon thing is a way to contain these nightmares from dalinars visions. Additionally when are we going to see them come in to play? The KR in the vision said they preceded a desolation, so maybe this will be something they start having to deal with soon? I hope only in small amounts, and far away from hearth stone. Oroden would not survive long if that were not the case.
@tommy 276 oh, you mean the Assuredness Movement? Heh, we’re all guilty of it from time to time I think
@274 Wetlandernw – you’re not the only one who thinks Lift never got what she asked for. I also think she never stopped aging and got something else instead. I think the food->stormlight thing is just a side effect of being partially in the cognitive realm, though, rather than a separate boon/curse. I suspect that wouldn’t have happened at all until she was bonded with Wyndle, and now some weird kind of interaction is going on there.
The truth is, though, we really don’t know anything at all about the Nightwatcher. We’ve gotten snippets here and there in the text but always just little bits by unreliable narrators who are repeating rumors and superstitions. We don’t know if any of that is actually true or not. Maybe the exact phrasing does matter, and it’s just the people in the book who are wrong about that. Maybe it’s not even a spren at all but Cultivation directly taking form and interacting with people.
@@@@@ 262 I think it’s possible that Experience is a new shard, or perhaps it’s just a different name for Cultivation.
dwcole@76 I think Brandon Sanderson has a good track record of giving many viewpoints on deity to main characters. He has characters like Sazed who basically believes in all religions, you have Jasnah who is an athiest, you have most average people believing the main-stream religion(s) if there is one/some. You also have people like Vivenna who leave home convinced of their religion’s correctness. As she went on her adventure she ended up compromising some of her values. Eventually she realized that there were incorrect things in her beliefs of the world.
Brandon Sanderson is aware that there are people with differing opinions of the world and he tries to keep realism by giving them all voices.
Brandon also has different kinds of gods in the Cosmere than he believes in here on Earth. Most of them share aspects of the God he believes in but the very nature of these Gods is that they are entities capable of dying which is not a doctrine of his church and likely isn’t a thing that he believes.(Not really willing to assume I know what he believes)
There is lots I could say about how the teachings of the church reflect very similar ideas to those Dalinar are expressing but I don’t really think this comment thread is the appropriate place to discuss real world churches more than to express similarities to the story.
Before I leave the topic I would like to note that the name of the Church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.”
As for other topics:
Kaladin and the Parshmen. Here is my prediction: Kaladin is going to manage to convince a few of them including the little girl that he is a friend and that he can help them. The Parshmen are going to make it to wherever they are being led to and they are going to become voidbringers except the ones that Kaladin befriends. Kaladin is going to beat himself about failing so many of them but is going to continue to protect the ones with him. He will likely then take them back to Urithiru and try to join them with his men of bridge four. This will make many uncomfortable one voidbringer was bad enough.
Theory on the Murders: There has been some talk of the murders being the result of an unmade in the same way that the thrill is a result of an unmade. I like this theory but what would be the actual effect. It clearly isn’t the thrill here. Perhaps it is inciting to violence differently from the thrill. Instead of the challenge of the thrill this unmade encourages you to strike out in anger. Or perhaps it is to make you reckless which is why Sadeas met with Adolin alone and also why Adolin killed him and also why Shallan might have done something as stupid as stab herself.
What I am more leaning toward is actually that by committing murder people are being opened up to the influence of the unmade and that they are being forced to rehash the murder on someone else. This would mean that Adolin was responsible for the second murder as well but didn’t know it. This would mean that investigating the murder that he thinks he didn’t do would lead him to discover that evidence points to him.
There was certainly some reason the place was abandoned. It could simply be because there were no Radiants there to keep it but it could also be that it was abandoned before the Recreance.
The one question I have is did I muse sufficiently to attract an AndrewHB spren?
@274 Wetlandernw
In her interlude, Lift say’s she’s been 10 for three (I think) years. Initially I took this to be a joke about her being unable to count past the number of fingers she has as she indicated 10 with her hands. But then from reading Edgedancer I came round to believing she genuinely believes she stopped ageing at 10 but then recently has observed signs of ageing again.
So I believe the most likely narrative is Lift seeking the Nightwatcher 3 years ago – aged 10. Gets her boon (and curse) resulting in her stopping ageing. 3 years later (when we see her) she is progressing as a KR and the investiture starts interfering with the Nightwatcher power and begins cancelling it out – hence she starts noticing herself ageing. Though I do concede that the 10 for three years reference may have been a red herring, but I don’t think it is as Dalinar is experiencing something similar (though that could be the point in the red herring…Ah!)
Something else occurred to me – we all expect Kaladin to become the Radiant champion, with, perhaps, Adolin being an outside bet. But it is going to be Szeth. There has to be a reason why Nightblood got it’s own origin book, why Szeth had to survive. And it would be an ace in the hole, as Nightblood is like nothing that Odium has dealt with previously and possibly much more powerful than Sprenblades or even Honorblades.
@283,
I think Warbreaker is supposed to be the origin story for Vasher/Zahel, if I recall correctly. I assumed that he ends up being more important in the latter books.
I think Aon Reo’s two theories on Dalinar and Lift losing their Nighthwatcher effects (@265 & @282) make the most sense that I have read so far, but wetlandernw definitely gave me food for thought. This is fun.
I love @283’s Isilel’s rationale for Szeth and Nightblood being the surprise Radiant champion to surprise the dark side with arcane Nightblood powers. The end of Warbreaker is a little hazy right now, but I don’t remember Nightblood specifically granting new powers to wielders…I wonder if/what will be the so far unseen powers/surges granted. Szeth has not shown that he can fly like the other two Skybreaker trainees. Would you almost have to use Nightblood in a highstorm to have enough available power to survive any fight for long?
Aon Reo @282 – My working theory is that Lift assumed she stopped aging, because that’s what she asked for, but in fact she didn’t, and is now forced to admit it by a) menarche and b) physical growth. This would mean that she spent three years (give or take a bit) simply believing that she wouldn’t grow up and she’d always be effectively ten years old. In her situation, especially given the constant lack of sufficient nutrition, it wouldn’t be all that odd for her to not change physically beyond what she could plausibly deny for those few years. It’s not like her mom is making her stand up against the wall on her birthday to see how much she grew this year.
It’s entirely possible that I’m wrong, that she really did stop aging for a few years until the bond with Wyndle forced the process to restart, but I don’t yet see any proof of that.
The one who wields NightBlood is ultimately consumed by the darkness if they fight for too long. This would seem an odd choice for the champion of Honor’s side. Unless somehow his background as a truthless makes Szeth immune to this effect. Or maybe NightBlood could suck Odium dry, isn’t that what he did to the humans when Vasher lets him get picked up?
And when the heck do Jasnah and Witt show up?
I’m still mulling over the horses too. Was that just a throw away that their hoofs are not evolved for the planet and they are not like the other native creatures. So maybe Odium came when the humans showed up. we certainly have a lot in common with him.
Even though Szeth is possibly on the path to redemption for some reason I still think he is going to end up being Odiums champion and I think the 9 shadows are the Heralds. He is the one who has had the most direct interaction with them and I think he will essentially become Odiums Herald and will bind the others to him.
The real surprise with be that parshmen can become radiants, that yellow spren isn’t a void siren, sly is just confused.
@47
I have a different reason. The fact that Dalinar now has access to wind runner powers (as demonstrated) means that the sliver of Honor (the honorblade) has given him more investiture from Honor. This likely supersedes or removes the investiture of Cultivation which gave him the boon and the curse. I am curious to see if Renarin gets better now as I believe his boon was Renarin related and the wife part was the curse. However if he is using atormlight it may be a moot point….. actually perhaps Renarin healing himself removed the need for the boon and thus removed the curse of forgetfulness. Hmmmm
I think it is concerning that Shallan is experiencing some amount of dissociation, but it could ultimately provide gristle for the mill of her Truths. We know that Lightweavers progress by internalizing more and more truths, coming to greater and greater self awareness. In a sense, she is creating what she must overcome to be a better Radiant and likely a better person. If she realizes the fetters she is placing on herself, then she would attain new level of self understanding. I suspect this was common amongst Lightweavers: coming to understand one’s self-deceptions.
@290: Windrunners and Bondsmiths share the Surge of sticking-ness called Adhesion. If Dalinar starts flying, well, then you’ll know he has Gravitation and the Honorblade’s bond.
Potentially random theory on the nature of the parshmen and the recreance in general:
What if, at the end of the last desolation, the bondsmiths all got together and somehow deliberately (and magically) forced ALL spren bonds to break, thus creating the shard blades and plate we see today, as well as breaking the parshmen (as they seem to be intricately linked to the cognitive and spren bonding is part of their nature)
The listeners were immune to this initial “breaking” because at the time that it happened, they had deliberately put themselves in dullform, forsaking any spren bonds in order to hide from their gods (odium and the unmade)
I didn’t know Odium is actually a word. I thought Brandon made it up as a synonym for hatred but it actually is a synonym for hatred. Learn new things everyday.
Maybe being partly in the spren realm is how the Nightwatcher made Lift stop aging, but the bond interferes with that. It allows the spren to be more fully in the human world and might have a similar effect on Lift.
Urithiru was abandoned because it cannot be reached without the Oathgates, which only work with living Shardblades (and apparently Honorblades).
Nightblood eats Investiture, that might take away the enemy’s ability to use Surges (or Odium power?). That might force Odium’s champion to fight without magic. Could the good champion trick Odium’s champion into using Nightblood? What if Zahel is the good champion? He certainly knows Nightblood best.
@286 Wetlandernw
That’s a reasonable theory, and I have considered it – hence the note that 10 for three years could be a red herring. However, I just think it’s too much of a stretch. Even if you take into account malnutrition there’s too much physical change ages 10 through 13 with the onset of puberty – which has changes that are impossible to ignore. So it would take powers of repression beyond even those of Shallan to not admit these changes and experiences while they’re actually happening. She could of course be a late starter, but this is less likely for females. So I still hold that the most likely reason is investiture interference, followed in second place (yet quite far behind) by Nightwatcher having her powers blocked/diverting her attention.
I like how scientific discussions about Sanderson’s work get despite them being fantasy novels set in a cosmere with magic. It shows how incredible his world-building is.
Keyblazing @284 and Birgit @295:
I did consider Zahel/Vasher for the role of humanity’s champion against Odium, but isn’t it much more likely that it is going to be one of the PoVs? Also, Zahel is pretty much a bit character in SoA so far and he gave away Nightblood, which ended up with one of the main protagonists. Szeth’s relationship with the robot-spren is clearly going to be crucial for his arc, so it would be incongrous and awkward if Zahel took Nightblood back at 11th hour and became Roshar’s champion. Not to mention that he has books of his own to star in, etc.
And no, I don’t expect Nightblood to give Szeth surges – not unless sojourn on Roshar helps it evolve into a proper living spren. But, as already pointed out above, it eats investiture, which is likely to be much more devastating to Odium’s/Unmade power.
It is true that Szeth needs to find a way to invest stormlight so that Nightblood doesn’t kill him, once fully drawn – and BTW, isn’t it odd that as far as we have seen, Nalan didn’t warn him about this little detail? But Zahel already has a hack for that and from what I understand about bonding, having Nighblood wouldn’t necessarily preclude Szeth also getting a spren. Which, if he does become a Radiant, isn’t going to be Skybreaker spren, IMHO.
My thinking is that Kaladin as Roshar’s champion is far to obvious and predictable (and boring, IMHO) – and that humanity has been caught unprepared, so that they’ll need something extra to prevail in the short term. Something that Odium failed to take into account. And that Nightblood got extended and detailed extra-planetary origin story for a reason.
Zahel – I did expect him to play a major role back when I thought that he was Ishar in hiding, but with that not being the case and with another Warbreaker book planned for him to star in, I suspect that he’ll be more of a background figure and occasional wise councelor to to the heroes.
Aon Reo @296:
Lift isn’t really a late-bloomer, though. 13 is pretty much run-of-the-mill for getting her first menses. In fact, with her habitual starving, I’d have expected her to get them 2-3 years later, even without supernatural interference. A few weeks of decent food shouldn’t have been enough.
P.S.: Apropos of nothing I also think that Pattern’s “That’s not the lie” suggests that what Shallan considers her “real” self is no such thing, but just another mask.
Even without experiencing signs of puberty, I still hold that it is too much of a stretch to believe that she failed to notice three years worth of growth – even with malnutrition and wishful thinking that’s too much.
Though I am with you that Zahel is a very unlikely candidate for their champion and that Kaladin is too obvious – which goes for Adolin as well, the series culminating in a dual seems too much when we’ve already had a book about him duelling. Do we have any information on which KR orders are the most martial?
Though maybe the battle of champions will be more mystical than we’re expecting rather, than a simple surge-assisted sword fight. I really don’t think we have enough to even begin informed speculation, so I’m just going to go ahead and propose Lift as the champion – even if she can’t beat him in a battle she can starve him by stealing all his meals before he gets to eat them.
On Lift being 13 but thinking herself as 10 and how plausible it is:
Anyone ever read Romain Gary? It is real-life themed fiction featuring a 13 years old boy thinking he is just 10 because he was lied, as a child, as to when he was born.
Hence, Lift being 13 but thinking she is 10: totally plausible.
On the Champion: I don’t think it is Zahel: he isn’t supposed to play a major role into the series, being a cross-over character. I hope it is not Kaladin for the same reasons as everyone else, too predictable and a tad boring. I don’t think it is Adolin because he is not supposed to be a character in the story, hence he can’t have a big role to play in the denouement.
I however really like the idea it may be Szeth and Nightblood.
Someone in Lifts’ position (orphaned and off the radar) could very well not know their true age. However, that is an entirely different matter from believing they haven’t aged for three years – which Lift appears to believe.
@301, @298:
I don’t think that Zahel will be the champion. I only meant to highlight that Vasher had been planned in the story for awhile, so I’m assuming that he’ll play a somewhat significant role (excluding the absence of Nightblood) in Stormlight Archive.
WOB: http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=vasher (#27 and #28).
@256: Thank you for pointing this out. I do agree with your statement and your warning on using our interpretation as facts, though I will admit it is sometimes hard to convey this within written words. And sometimes we just forget to make the distinction.
Brandon was asked if alcoholism was a problem within the Kholin family. He answered by a RAFO. Obviously, RAFO does not mean yes, nor no, but I personally think a case can reasonably be made it is a running problem. Dalinar had it, Elhokar seemed to be following a similar path or at least he were back in WoR.
I also believe, when it comes to character writing, there is a threshold in between “not enough drama”, “enough drama” and “too much drama” to be had within a same character. Shallan currently may be battling with dissociative personality disorder, she has created yet another persona to withstand the strain imposed on her by Adolin wanting to train her, she is sinking more deeply into Veil and she is revealing into the ability to control her physical pain. Pattern highlighted there was a problem with Shallan, hence she is not progressing, she is regressing, sinking, drowning. Adding a problem with alcohol seems like, still from my personal perspective, it would make her topple over the “too much drama” side of things. On the other hand, I personally feel the Kholin family are currently laying onto the “not enough drama” side of things which isn’t to say nothing is happening, more to say things which are happening aren’t putting a visible strain onto the family nor its members nor is it foreseen their relationship with each other may suffer. So while Dalinar/Adolin/Renarin/Elhokar are currently within positions where this strain could be applied, it has yet to be done within the narrative. Also, the stones Brandon has currently layed out for the story so far do not indicate it is likely to happen. Dalinar is undoubtedly focusing solely on Navani, his foreign politics and the Ardentia which is interesting, but the fact Brandon chose to write Dalinar’s conflicts with Kadash and not his family makes it less personal and thus, to me as a reader, less engaging.
It is why, shall Brandon wish to explore the thematic of alcoholism, I would rather he kept it as an internal Kholin family affair instead of turning it into a “Shallan’s story arc”, but YMMV.
Perhaps I’m overthinking, but the fact that we have a Beta discussing theories on Lift worries me that we likely won’t get much information on that character in the scope of this novel. Was hoping…
Has anyone noticed that the Parshmen that Kaladin is interacting with aren’t connected to the rhythms? They speak like Alethi rather than how the Parshendi normally talk. I think the Everstorm fixed their mind, but there is still something that is “wrong” with them. When Eshonia bonded the stormspren, she could hear new rhythms. I’d say they still need a high storm to bond a spren.
As for Odiums champion, could it be Eshonia and the 9 shadows are the number of forms the voidbringers can take. We have already seen some of the heralds, and some of them are exhibiting the behavior that we could expect the Radiants to have. In particular the guy that is hunting Lift and recruits Szeth (I can’t remember his name). There really isn’t a reason think that they would side with forces they have been fighting for millennia.
@305, Adam: I wouldn’t read to much into Welandernw talking about Lift.
She’s had years of experience dancing around the theories. And throwing out red herrings. Some of her comments about WoR were mastery of the Aes Sedai statements – I will say no words that are not true.
Re: Zahel, yes, Warbreaker was Vasher’s backstory. Brandon was also not as well know back then. It was easier to sale a stand alone novel than the SA novels. After he finished WoT, Tor helped make the SA novels the lovely art filled brick of a book each are now. He also learned much by writing WoT about managing character and plot bloat.
Adam @305 – :D Well, there are a number of possibilities here. Said beta reader could be trolling, naturally. Or she could be trying to get people to think outside the obvious connections, just on principle. Or this aspect isn’t addressed in OB, and she’s just as clueless as anyone else. Or, as you suggest, we don’t learn anything significant about Lift in OB.
Or some combination of the above. You never know with these beta readers.
Keyblazing @303:
I know that Zahel/Vasher had been a character in WoK Prime, but judging by some early chapters of it recently published on Sanderson’s homepage, the world it took place in used to be some sort of amalgam of what are now Roshar and Nalthis, so I can only assume that Vasher’s involvement there, in additon to being proto-Kaladin’s swordmaster was mainly to illuminate significant historical events and to explain Nightblood. The last 2 things have been accomplished in Warbreaker and the first has been much abbreviated from what it used to be. So far Zahel has been very much a bit character in a mentoring role and we are already 2 books in. Also, I think that there is a WoB that proto-Szeth was supposed to die? Why save him and separate Vasher from Nightblood if Szeth isn’t going to take over some part of what used to be Vasher’s plot-line in SoA?
And the WoBs at your link say stuff like “you’ll see a lot more of Nightblood and a bit more of Vasher” (in the next book after WoR), etc., which confirms my feeling that Nightblood is going to be far more important and prominent character of the 2 ;)
Oh, and another unrelated but interesting thing – Odium is supposed to have sustained wounds that will never heal – but Preservation was hurt almost to the point of splintering when Leras died, yet appeared to be whole again when Vin and and then Sazed picked it up – what is going on there? Is it because of Odium’s Intent?
@293 Trimerion, I love your theory, very elegant. This is so fun reading all these speculations and discussions, I look forward to this every day. Thanks everyone!
There is a difference between the power of the Shard and the person of the Shardholder. Just because one Shardholder was attacked doesn’t mean the next holder of the same Shard has to be hurt, but holding a Shard doesn’t seem to heal like holding Stormlight (or maybe it does, but not with special wounds).
Maybe Jasnah is the champion and the final battle isn’t with physical swords and who is the best duelist. It would be fought in Shadesmar and the shard blades moving and shifting thoughts.
So, Jasnah fighting Odium’s champion in Shadesmar while the 9 shadows are fighting our Radiants in the “real” world
or, Shallan and Jasnah fighting the 9 in Shadesmar while Kaladin fights the champion in “real” world.
I like the pacing in the last 9 chapters as compared to the first 9. The first chapters felt very rushed and lacked depth. I much prefer the indepth relation and character building we see in the latest chapters. I also love the unexpected direction that nearly every storyline is taking.
With a node to the Assuredness Movement, I like how in the last chapter, it is confirmed Renarin committing the murders. Now that it is confirmed that murders are of a supernatural origin, the only person left in the city experimenting with stormlight is Renarin. It is obvious that in his Truthseeking for the source of the murders he is accidently going into a trance where the murders are reenacted.
Gepeto @304. Funny you should reference the question that Brandon was asked about alcoholism. I believe (or at least my ego would like to believe :) ) that the person who asked that question did so at my request. IIRC, this person had asked if anybody had any questions. I gave her that question because at the time, there were no scheduled book signings near me. That is why I was very interested in your interpretation of Brandon’s comment (or if he had addressed the matter further).
As to how the issue of alcoholism plays out (if it plays out at all), we shall see.
On the subject of alcoholism, I hope Shallan talks to Lopen about her experience in Investiture curing drunkenness. This way, the Lopen can challenge Rock to a drinking contest with Horneater Ale and be able to beat Rock.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@313 I agree that the second murderer is not human. I think it can be one of two things. First, I thought of Renarin like you. Sanderson is too smart to point towards and obvious avenue and then that be the actual payoff. He’s like Jordan in that respect. I think the being killing the second person is Adolin’s spren. Remember, you have to be broken to be a radiant. Adolin straight up committed murder in cold blood. I think that broke him in some way. Now a spren is attracted to him and it is doing the copy cat murders.
adjbaker @313 said “it is confirmed Renarin committing the murders.” Do you have textual support to make that assertion? From my interpretation of what I have read in OB so far, I would disagree with your statement. It may end up being the case or it may not. But I do not believe we can say at this point that Renarin committed the murders.
Wetlandernw. Many comments ago on this particular thread, you said that you would tell us the story of how you learned the reveal of Evi’s name. It has been a few days. Any chance you would be willing to tell us that story? Or will you hold us in suspense for a few more weeks?
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
adjbaker @313: LOL! Well played.
ETA: AndrewHB @316: It was clearly a joke. (“With a node to the Assuredness Movement,…”)
@315-I like your theory that the murder opened the way for a spren. It is interesting that both murders copied were done in a rage. Rage is the key. That is why the guy thrown off the ledge will not be copied.
Wetlandernw @274
Alice, are you saying we still won’t know what Lift’s deal is by the end of Oathbringer?! How dare you, Sanderson?!
Kidding ;) it’s a 10 book series. The Brandon Avalanche will just be that much bigger.
Or maybe you’re just that good at not spoiling. I wouldn’t be surprised.
@316/317 – I may have overstated my case for Renarin being the murderer :)
If the rage of the murders does attract a spren, I wonder how it interacts with the physical world. I would be surprised if the copycats where done directly by the spren. I think it would take a human agent. So is it a single person or does the spren somehow infect the original murderer thus making Adolin a double murderer?
Edit: On second thought, in Dalinar’s visions, spren did take on physical form using rock and smoke. If it is a true voidspren would that make Adolin the first true voidbringer?
@314: Now that you mention it, I recall reading this WoB into the WoR reread. I recalled asking is autism had a history into the Kholin family, but nobody had the occasion to ask Brandon directly.
This being said, I remain curious about it. A nice parallel would have been to have someone from the younger generation develop the same problem as a mirror to Dalinar, but it may not be an avenue Brandon wants to explore.
On Renarin being the Murderer: I don’t believe it: murder requires purpose. I have a hard time believing Renarin would murder innocent people on purpose nor that he has the visibility to see bottom scale of the society murders from close enough to duplicate it. What Veil uncovered was only known by a handful of people: Renarin doesn’t have access to this information and I don’t buy the argument he has been doing some spying on his own. This does not fit Renarin’s character, as far as we know it.
I thus do not believe Renarin has anything to do with it.
I don’t believe Adolin has anything to do with it unless Roshar has a form of magic which leaves no mark on you, a form of magic you can’t detect (nothing odd in Adolin’s POV) which makes you do murder without you having any remembrance of it. Also, Adolin is one of the easiest recognizable faces in Alethkar, if he had been around, possessed and ready to kill, people would have seen him.
I now believe whoever is doing the murder is not human, but it must have a purpose. I am thinking maybe the Champion is doing them? But to which end, I do not know. I am not sure it is not a snare, but whom it wants to catch is not sure at all. I used to think the copycat murders were a trap meant for Adolin, but now it probably has nothing to do with him, except he’s the one determined to find the culprit.
My current thoughts are Adolin will get more than he bargained for. Murdering Sadeas created or attracted something which is bigger then himself and by hunting it, he will get into trouble. This could be interesting though I still think it turns the whole Sadeas story arc into a nothing arc as consequences for it won’t be linked to it, not directly.
Like many others, I am concerned that Dalinar’s healing may be due to his remarriage. I really hope he can start making headway with the other countries rulers. Its necessary for conflict, but I think everyone would be equally excited by the travel and trade opportunities so I am hopeful they will make progress.
I also didn’t know Evi was his wife’s name at first. I thought she was a sister at first and they were saying who actually would have a claim to the shardplate after her death other than Adolin.
Curious if Kalladin’s chapter gave more or less credence to the theory that the next two Ideals will deal with leadership instead of protecting since the patron herald of Windrunning has Protecting and Leading as his divine attributes.
Shallan’s life path continues to be disturbing but we need more buildup for her to accept her next truths.
It’ll be interesting to see if the identical murders continue. What if the suffocating murders only stopped because the original murderer was killed? That would put Adolin in an awkward position
Longtime reader, first time commentor:
Just got to read these chapters, and had a thought. I’m thinking that since the Stormlight powers have a strong Cognitive Realm connections with the sprens, that Stormlight healing has a lot to do with what the person perceives as needing healing. So with Kal, the slave brands are not healed since he has long accepted them as part as his identity. With Dalinar, the hole in his memory wasn’t healed until he started to see the missing memories as being abnormal. His slow progression from acknowledging the hole, to being reminded of events surrounding Evi’s memory, then realizing there is something in the memories that would help him understand Kadesh’s relationship with him, to revealing to Navani that there is a hole, culminated when the spanreed discussion revolved around Evi’s Shardplate while holding Stormlight.
Looking at how the “Voidbringers” that Kaladin is following are behaving I’m having second thoughts about the Queens “negotiations.” Do you think that she is negotiating with Voidbringers or another group of freed Parshmen?
@several re: Evi’s name revelation – I was very curious to see how others reacted to this scene, particularly getting a mix of those who knew earlier and those who didn’t. My experience was… flawed, shall we say? It’s not all that exciting, but here it is.
I had not read The Thrill – not because I was thinking about spoilers per se, but because I knew I’d get it soon enough in the beta, and I thought I’d enjoy it more if I got it in context. (And also because I’m not super big on anthologies where I’m not sure I want to read more than one or two stories.) Therefore, I went into this knowing only what I’d heard in readings – early versions of the first couple of flashbacks.
Unfortunately for me, one of the other betas viewed all of the content in The Thrill as “common knowledge” since it was out there, and mentioned her name during the Chapter 12 discussion in a context where it was impossible to not understand that he was referring to Dalinar’s wife. So I knew her name even though I didn’t want to.
When I read Chapter 16, then, I got to that line and had sort of an “Oh, look, he heard her name!” reaction at the first mention. It was an exciting moment in that it was the first time he heard it, but it felt a bit flat for me. I was pretty sure that if I hadn’t known, I’d have read the first mention, thought, “Who?”, then thought, “Wait, could that be Dalinar’s wife?? Did he just hear her name???” And then I’d have had that fist-pumping moment of Discovery, along with Dalinar, when he realized he’d heard it.
So it’s possible that I felt it was flat just because I was still annoyed over the spoiler. But I really think that The Reveal was beautiful as written, and the overall experience of it was diminished by knowing her name ahead of time.
Aon Reo @299 –
I suppose this comes from the Edgedancer reread we’re doing right now, because we’ve been talking about it a lot, but Lift is practically the definition of an unreliable narrator. Not just for the reader — half the time, she doesn’t even tell herself the truth, though she knows it. So I think it’s perfectly plausible that she would hold on to her conviction that she’s not changing even in the face of a fair bit of evidence that she is. When she finally admits to herself that she’s noticeably taller than she was when she went to the Nightwatcher three years ago, that didn’t happen overnight. She’s been growing, but not having anything to force her to acknowledge the growth, she’s been refusing to admit it. JMO, of course.
Am I the only one who thinks Rial may really be really Szeth? He said he was “reborn”.
@@@@@ 327 Honor. Have you read Edgedancer? I think a lot of people are not considering Szeth because the timing doesn’t work out. I’d also be very surprised if Dalinar didn’t recognise him, even with hair. :) Shin have very distinctive eyes, so if Rial had those, it’d probably be noted in the text.
But the reborn thing is interesting. You could explain it as, oh of course he’s been reborn, now that he’s no longer a slave, but the way he says reborn, instead of something like ‘I’ve changed’, or ‘I’m a new man now’ is interesting.
Trimerion @293
Your theory about Bondsmiths being responsible for breaking those bonds rings more true than any theory thrown out on these chapter releases based on the evidence on hand. Great call
@327, Honor: An Alethi doesn’t describe Szeth without noting his pale skin and wide eyes.
Szeth looks basically like a pale English man.
Rial, looks typically Alethi. Which is someone with an epicanthic fold and a brown tan skin tone.
Rial rings all sorts of warning bells. But he’s not Szeth in disguise. He strikes me as an annoying and not charming Lopen.
@329 lord_monch
When that particular theory came to me (please forgive no textual evidence, im on my phone so cant cut and link it all, even if I could find it) I literally got goosebumps and chills, everything just fits, I told my sister (also a sanderson fan) about it and she had the same reaction and almost started crying,
If my theory is true the damage to both the KR and parshmen must have been terrible
trimerion@331, lord_monch@329 — I disagree. It may well have been the Bondsmiths who performed the breaking of the bonds remotely, as it were, and on a massive scale, or it may have been individual Radiants working in concert.
However, if anyone is to bear the blame and responsibility, it’s some of the Heralds and the only **spoiler** Radiant order to remain — the Skybreakers.
The big reveal is in the Edgedancer Chapter 9:
Other hints are in the epigraphs in WoR:
Now, the weakest point of my theory is the connection between the betraying order and the Skybreakers, which is supported by just the single fact that they are still active when the Stormlight Archive begins and nothing else so far. OTOH, they seem to be perfectly able to have betrayed the other orders (Bondsmiths included) by sticking to the letter of the law.
I’m sorry if two duplicates of my post went to moderation. It seems that using the word >> t r a i t o r << must have triggered some hate speech detection script.
Regarding Szeth not looking Alethi, do we know if he is naturally bald or if he shaves his head? For some reason I assume he’s naturally bald, but don’t recall evidence in the text to support that. It’s hard to imagine him with hair.
Finally got through most of the comments. I wish I had time to read this earlier in the week.
Hello Evi, nice to meet you.
Gepeto, I personally prefer that family drama remain in the background of a story. Drama should serve the story rather the other way around, so I like the way this is playing out. Right now, there are enough characters and plot lines to reintroduce that extra drama would slow things down. I believe there will be drama, but the build up of it will be slower.
@@@@@ 148: Rial = Wayne?!! I, too, immediately pegged Rial for a world hopper, but I could not recall which of Brandon’s characters liked to roll coins over his knuckles like Rial does with spheres. It would have been easy for someone like Wayne to infiltrate the bridge crews in all the confusion during WoR. I also wondered if he was with the Ghostbloods. It makes sense that Rial, being a named character with lines, has a bigger part to play than that he is some random bridge man. However, if he is neither Wayne, working with Hoid, nor one of the Ghostbloods, then it is possible his purpose is to become a Bondsmith squire.
OK, so we have confirmation that Vivena is on Roshar. Could she be the Scout working with Shallan?
Speaking of Shallan, last week I was thrilled that she was possibly transforming herself, through the use of both her surges, into an expert sword wielder. I can’t wait until the next time she and Alodin spar so he can comment on what a fast learner she is. This week, the concept of transformation is definitely more concerning.
@333: No–no duplicate comments held up in moderation, and the word “traitor” shouldn’t cause any sort of posting issue. We *have* been having some issues with the system when it comes to comments over 13,000 characters, which we are working to address right now, so perhaps it was a length-related issue? If not, it might help to clear your browser cache if you’re having trouble posting comments, and if the problem continues, please send us an email at webmaster@tor.com with as much information as possible (including which browser and platform you’re using, and a description of exactly what happens when you try to post comments.)
Has anyone spent any thought to how amusing King T’s reaction is going to be when he finds out Dalinar is a surgebinder? …
I cant wait
@@@@@ 335
Where? Who?
I miss so many things :-(
i have some theories but it might be a spoiler since it is founded on a statement from Edgedancer
**“Unfortunately, no,” Darkness said. “I once thought as you, but Ishar made the truth clear to me. If the bonds between men and spren are reignited, then men will naturally discover the greater power of the oaths. Without Honor to regulate this, there is a small chance that what comes next will allow the Voidbringers to again make the jump between worlds. That would cause a Desolation, and even a small chance that the world will be destroyed is a risk that we cannot take. Absolute fidelity to the mission Ishar gave us—the greater law of protecting Roshar—is required.”**
When i reread this, i had a question. Are we sure that parshem bonded to voidspern are the actual voidbringers? If i recall correctly parshmen were indigenous to Roshar, so if Desolation is brought by the ability of Voidbringers to **worldhop**, this would imply that a place is under a threat of **invasion form another world(and we assume that the world under threat is Roshar, since i doubt heralds would be protecting some other world from Voidbringers going there from Roshar), could corrupted parshmen be simply means to bring those worldhopping Voidbringers to Roshar? Plus we already know that heralds are going to “some place” to be tortured, and lots of people think its Braize**
And if the corrupted parshmen are indeed the Voidbrings, that opens possibility for a theory to the secret that broke Radiants, **what if secret is that parshmen/Voidbringers were exiled from there homeland to a different world(probably to Braize since they need to invade from somewhere) by heralds/radiants/humans in general)**
P.S.
is it okey to repost a comment in the thread for newer chapters, i want to know if people have answers about this and i doubt that more than a handful are reading this comments so close to new chapters being released
zzladeii@339 I definitely don’t have an answer or even a thorough conjecture, but I’m absolutely with you that parshendi != voidbringer. Maybe voidbringers are any creatures associated with/ controlled by voidspren. This could be via bonding (humans), storm changing (parshendi), or general enlivening (thunderclasts from rocks or anything scary from anything inanimate, really).
Wetlander, another data point for you: I did not know Evi’s name and my reaction mirrored Dalinar’s pretty exactly. I read over it quickly, and as my mind was saying, “Evi? That’s a new name, let me re-read that section” my eyes had already moved on to Dalinar’s reaction and I understood that Brandon had pulled one over on me and timed it perfectly. It got a chuckle and a tip of the hat, but no fist pumping or emotional reaction. Just respect for technical prowess.
adjbaker@313 There must be something to this Assuredness Movement, I’m feeling very worried about side effects for Renarin’s Truthwatching despite all my instincts telling me he’s fine and that I don’t agree with your theory. :)
General thoughts:
I love Kaladin trying to help the parshmen and I hope they can become KR, like I’m guessing humans can be voidbringers.
I don’t think Shallan will have an alcohol issue, because even if she does, I think it will be more an issue of being addicted to being Veil.
The Chekhov honorblade will be stolen, probably by T & company before their game is uncovered.
I love reading Dalinar and Navani’s interactions and think they are much more interesting than people are giving credit for (measured via comment mentions). Maybe everybody is too busy fighting over which ship is best and they forget to look at the horizon where the ship is headed. I’ll give you a hint: it’s stormy and beautiful, especially when nobody is jumping ship (says the married man).
@340 I agree as well, re: voidbringers. There seems to be a huge disconnect between what we see in Dalinar’s visions versus what we saw at the end of WOR, so we’re definitely missing a big piece of the puzzle of what a Desolation actually is.
@@@@@ 340 – rccampbe
I see your point, but I don’t like Navani. :-( I see her as an opportunist and very manipulative. She chose Gavilar to marry because he was the one would be king though she liked Dalinar better. Then, when she became useless as a dowager queen, she put her sights on Dalinar so that she will be relevant again.
Perhaps, they are “cute” right now, for lack of a better world. With so many YA books around and the focus on the romance given to teeny boppers and young adults, an adult couple as a major romantic subplot is actually refreshing.
That said, I don’t foresee Navani and Dalinar’s relationship to be very smooth. With Dalinar remembering his dead wife, the memories of what he did to make him go to the Nightwatch (forgot proper name) to ask for him to forget Evi will be fresh again. And this could bring conflict to the newlyweds, albeit it is a second marriage for both.
When Dalinar talked to other monarchs and they said they were negotiating with the parshmen we thought that was a bad thing, but after Kaldin’s experiences maybe they got it right and Dalinar was wrong.
@342 sheiglagh
I’m not sure how you have interpreted Navani like that. In WoK she outright tells Dalinar why she chose his brother over him – basically because he was terrifying back then after stating that it wasn’t because he was going to be king. It was implied that she liked Dalinar then, but from what we’ve seen in the flashbacks, I could see that his berserker by day, drunkard by night lifestyle would push potential suitors away. She could be lying, but her actions in the books don’t really match those of master-manipulator seeking power.
For a start, surely the king would have been a better choice to focus her manipulation on if she just wanted influence – easier target and when she first start to pursue Dalinar he has’t started taking control. Then there’s the fact that she acts almost entirely in support role in running things and doesn’t seek to take decisions that should be made by Dalinar. Then finally – the gloryspren at her wedding.
@Trimerion I don’t know if this necessarily throws a wrench in your theory works, ***potential spoiler*** but in Dalinar’s “vision” where he saw KR abandoning their Shards, he specifically described watching the glow fade from the blades. To me, that would suggest that the moment of bond severing and spren death was then, not earlier as performed by a Bondsmith.
I’m so lost with all the “world hopper” discussions. I barely remember Mistborn, didn’t read the second series, and seem to have missed other publications too. I’m just trying to understand THIS series.
Thanks all, for bringing me up to speed….or trying to!
@340: I personally find the Dalinar and Navani romance lacks passion. I get it they love each other and have been loving each other their entire life, but their respective personalities make them a passion-less very even couple. I am pleased they are finally officially married, but their relationship doesn’t even begin to compare (IMHO) to the Adolin/Shallan one where everything is still possible, where they are still getting to know each other, where I can feel their respective passion and butterflies.
Thus, while I understand what Brandon is trying to accomplish, with Dalinar/Navani, in having the older people have firm romance as opposed to the younger people, they do not satisfy me, as a reader, in terms of romance. Their wedding was cute and everything, but having Adolin/Shallan getting married would make a considerably more significant moment still to me, as a reader, then them. My perspective also is Dalinar/Navani did not need to get married: it adds nothing to their relationship, just a formality, but it may be where cultural differences are playing a factor here.
@342: Navani can’t have chosen Gavilar on the pretense he would be king because, according to the timeline, she might have married him before he started his war of unification. Even if he had started it, there were no guarantee he would win. Gavilar Kholin was born in the 4th dahn from a poorer branch of the Kholin family. He first set himself up to conquer his princedom (he was too far down the line to be considered a contender) before coercing Alethkar under his rule.
Thus, I do not think Navani married Gavilar because he was to be king. We however aren’t getting this story in OB as far as I am aware.
I think Adam’s comment @345 is important. Way of Kings/Words of Radiance visions, Edgedancer, etc. are fair game to not be spoilers though.
The human Knights Radiant arrived with glowing armor, i.e. alive, and then abandoned it. It stopped glowing or died. That does not seem to point to an outside action by the Bondsmiths. I read their actions as a consequence of feeling betrayed by the spren for some reason. Then when they abandoned/killed so many spren, the remaining spren feel betrayed as well. I have no answer to what the big action taken by the Bondsmiths about the nature of their powers is…unless it was more of a question. Maybe Dalinar can learn to force knowledge from the Stormfather? He is currently getting sporadic answers of his questions. Maybe the Bondsmiths are the ones who uncovered the reason the humans felt betrayed and abandoned their spren. It fits with what I think below.
I think the spren bond has some sort of hidden cost to the human or even Parshendi partner. Does life drain? Or does life extend, but spiritual identity get taken or destroyed? Do the spren somehow “come to life” beyond just sentience? Do they gain some sort of permanent presence in the physical realm that is somehow detrimental? I think something along those lines makes sense from both the Radiants’ action in the vision and the state of the current Heralds.
When Nalan has his epiphany in Edgedancer, it seems to me like something changes beyond just mentally. The physical/spiritual state in his blank eyes changes too. It’s like he “remembers” who he was with some help from his friendly neighborhood Radiant. Has a spren bond been keeping him alive, but draining his humanity? The Skybreakers could have stayed with their spren bonds after the other orders abandoned their spren and powers, gaining some sort of extended life at the cost of their humanity. And their betrayal at the expense of the others was them hunting down and killing those other Radiants who now lacked the ability to defend themselves.
The likely Herald speaking to Nalan in Jasnah’s POV prologue says something to the effect that “It is getting worse.” Jezrien is “drooling” (and possibly building cities out of trash in alleyways); Ishar may be the scary God king of Tukar and/or the one whose arrival Nalan threatens would be scary to Tashikk, plus he is insisting that no Desolation is coming as long as we kill Radiants; and Shalash is psycho about destroying her likeness. I asked Brandon at the WoR signing if their was some sort of real-world gain from destroying the art, and he said it was just a internal drive/need of the lady doing it. All some sort of long-term, spren-bond-induced effect on their humanity or identity? Shallan and the newly awakened Parshmen’s story here in OB, the whole Wax and Wayne Mistborn arc, and comments in the Ars Arcanum in the books seem to be pointing to the identity aspects of the deeper Cosmere workings being very important.
Shallan: I think her new ideal will be something to do with finding out Adolin is a murderer. She will have to decide to keep his secret or let it out. And, I hope it includes something to do with all her extra personalities.
Khalidin: I agree with the poster whom said his next ideal will be on protecting everyone even potential enemies and non-“humans”
Dalinar: I agree with the posters whom said that his bracelet painrial that removes pain has effected his curse/boom and can now hear his wife’s name.
Adolin: I think he will make his first ideal that sometimes you must kill for the greater good, however, lying about it is bad… something like that. Which I hope that wakens his swords spren!
Also, am I the only one who checks to see if Tor accidently published the next chapters by continuing the link pattern?
@several – the only thing that should be marked as spoilers for this discussion should be the flashbacks from The Thrill which haven’t been posted yet. All info from TWOK, WOR, and Edgedancer should be assumed common knowledge.
godessimho@287:
I’m not sure that’s exactly how Nightblood works. Specifically, the danger to the wielder of Nightblood is that it feeds on the wielder’s Breath until they have no Breath left. For a normal person, this just leaves them Drab. For a returned, this would kill them. On Roshar, Nightblood will feed on Stormlight. That’s not a danger to Szeth, because he has no Stormlight, yet. I imagine in a fight against a Radiant… Nightblood would be incredibly dangerous.
The other danger Nightblood poses to someone trying to wield it is in regards to “evil”. If Nightblood thinks you are evil, it can increase your bloodlust until you are not in control, and are slaughtering everyone in your vicinity indiscriminately, thereby proving you are “evil” in Nightblood’s mind. In the end, you end up committing suicide by impaling yourself on the still-sheathed blade.
Someone Nightblood thinks of as “good” will feel sick while holding Nightblood until they draw the blade and use Nightblood, at which point they are bonded to Nightblood. Its interesting that Szeth’s POV reveals absolutely no sensation whatsoever. Not bloodlust, not revulsion. Yet, Nightblood can easily speak with him. Basically, we have no idea how Nightblood will work on Roshar, where there is no Invested Breath within every single person.
@345 adam_chestnut
Actually thats one of the driving factors of my theory, it may be that the bond breaking was not an immediate effect, but I cant see (other than serious outside influence ie:bondsmith ) that many KR simultaneously abandoning their oaths
The radients in the vision was only a small portion of 2 of the 9 orders that completely abandoned their oaths, also it may be that the one order that did not abandon their oaths had to fight to keep their oaths intact, (or maybe they were broken and then reforged?)
These are all questions that I hope brandon will address in future books
Anthony Pero #352
Perhaps, in atonement, Szeth, (as Darkness/Herald Nalan’s champion), can he weild Nighhtblood against Odium or Odium’s champion?
Is a battle of this sort even possible? What is the probable outcome if he wins? Or, if he loses? What becomes of Nightblood?
Public Service Reminder –
It’s okay to say “First!” if you follow that up with a real thought.
“First! This will be great!”
“First! I love these early previews!”
But don’t just write “First!” Your comment will be deleted.
@350 – LOL. I think some do on Tuesday.
@355:
Hence the use of the Hunny.
@354:
We have yet to see what Nighblood can actually do on Roshar, so its difficult to know. It seems like it would sever Connection, just like a Shardblade. But it might also eat the Stormlight from anyone within its vicinity, if removed from its scabbard. I’d be, very, very interested in what Nightblood could do if used in a Highstorm. Could he suck in all the Stormlight, and power some crazy, continent-shattering strike?
I keep thinking about Dalinars’s sudden remembrance of his deceased wife… And remembering that he is newly married. Now, his marriage to Navani isn’t exactly recognized by the church at this moment, but is it possible that he is in danger of forgetting her? Did he wish to forget everything about the wife that he loved? Now that he is remarried… could he be in danger of losing these new memories of Navani?
Crazy theory, I know.
@358: I have heard of it: it has been published onto many medias. What seems wrong with it, is how having married Navani nullifies his former marriage to Evi? Evi will always be his wife, even if she is dead, even if Dalinar remarries. Thus, him remembering Evi can’t be tied to him marrying Navani… They both are his wife. The fact he has a new one changes nothing on Evi.
CMH@@@@@130: Hoid introduces himself by that name in both the Stormlight Archive and Warbreaker!
He even explains to Kaladin that it isn’t his actual name, but one he adopted.
That’s not even WoB, it’s right there in the books.
Patillian@@@@@348: Heralds did not (Nahel) bond to spren. That’s something Syl states as a difference between them and the Radiants.
Time check
Carl @360 True back in the day because they had the Honorblades to give them power. But since they abandoned their blades and Oathpact, what have they been doing since? As far as I understand it, the Heralds would not have their surges or ability to use stormlight without their blades. Nalan has the ability to use stormlight to run/fight faster as demonstrated in the first Lift Interlude in WoR, and Wyndle warns that he has some sort of spren when Lift is following him through the city in Edgedancer. I think the Heralds bonded spren after leaving their blades because they like having the powers that come with it, and that the effect of those bonds is causing their erratic behavior.
@362
I doubt that. I think you are reading too much into this. If it changed people quickly, over couple of years, people would have noticed, and if it takes centuries i don’t think Sanderson would introduce something like this, since we will not be able to observe this effects on a character.
And most importantly there is no need for such a thing, i think being alive for millennias will change a person fine on its own, allianate them from mortals
does anyone know why chapter 19-21 hasn’t been released yet?
Not sure. Been waiting for 5 hours for 19-21
@364, 365 the chapters are released shortly after 9 am in the Tor timezone, which is Eastern. So 3 hours to go.
its tuesday.
new chapter is not uploaded.
HURRY UP !!!!!!!!!!!!
@@@@@ 359 Gepeto. This is definitely true, Evi would still be his wife. However, since the Nightwatcher’s boons and curses are often based on neural and mental progresses, could the curse/boon possibly react to who Dalinar thinks of as his wife?
He knows he was married, but he’s mentioned before how easy it is for him to forget that. He only had the empty space to remind him. Now that he’s married to Navani, she might have easily supplanted Evi in his mind as his ‘wife’, so to speak.
@364-367: I feel for ya. I’m in Israel this week, so instead of the new chapters being up a short time after I am, I have to wait most of the day.
@365 @366 ahhhh, I can’t wait! I promised myself I wouldn’t read any of it before the whole book is released but i somehow ended up here and read it all… whoops. And it is amazing so far! It’s torture to wait a week between the chapters, but it’s absolutely worth it.
Is it 9AM there yet?
Wow, I really liked the part where she scratched the Ghostbloods’ symbol on the table and how much respect she commanded from that group afterwards.
Lots of stuff, though my favorite part was Dalinar’s story about “tradition”
Storms! I just had a thought. Gavilar gave the black sphere to Szeth, we don’t know where Szeth put it. Szeth had access to Urithiru. Urithiru is the most secure place he could have put it. People have theorized that the sphere might contain one of the Unmade. What if the influence of black sphere is ultimately responsible for the second murders?
@374 – in TWOK, we learned that he hid it somewhere in Jah Keved. We haven’t heard of it since then. Doesn’t mean he hasn’t moved it, of course.
I haven’t read all the comments in all these threads, but I’m curious: Does anyone else think that Shallan might end up being the evil champion? The champion has red eyes and 9 shadows. What does that mean? Shallan is developing a split personality, she’s going deeper and deeper into the personalities of them, and even Pattern doesn’t like what’s happening to her. I can see her turning evil/becoming unable to control the personalities she’s creating.
Just caught up!
My latest wild theory:. Navani is who Dalinar recognized in the 9Shadows vision, and why he married her so quickly. He can love her totally and try to save her by bonding her to him. Navani’s glory spren continue to bother me. Being married to Dalinar places Navani in the perfect spot for spying on and manipulating Dalinar. Who reads everything to him and thru whom does he communicate via (ack, can’t remember is it) spanwriting?
Also, what if Adolin healed himself? I’ve suspected him of bonding his spren via the heartfelt conversations he’s had for years. I just don’t think the spren nor Adolin have realized it yet.
I’m catching up slowly after doing a re-read of WoK and WoR…I’m glad to see where things are going with the parshmen. I found the in-world characterization of them as “ideal” slaves to be disconcerting and I’m glad to see that it is being challenged now.
Dalinar’s curse and boon…
He is now wearing a pain fabrial which is part of the watch Navani gave him. At the end of the same chapter his curse/boon which was related to pain starts to go away, and the stormfather says it is not the bond. Just a thought.
On the mistake Daniel (comment 40) found: actually, several lines around that, not just that one exchange, are very confusing?
It’s maybe not that small a mistake, it seems to me… but might not require that much rewriting…
@380 You know, it’s already been explained that there’s no mistake. It’s simply that the line break after the first “Dalinar said” got lost in copy-pasting.
@381 Thank you. I did not, in point of fact, know, and should have read further in the comments.
@@@@@ 15 I don’t see clear evidence of Shalash = Shshshsh (what we’ve been calling Dalinar’s ex-wife until this chapter), but once I read your post, the theory made sense…Shalash has been going around destroying/erasing pics of herself (if she is indeed, the mysterious woman in Baxil’s interlude as Sanderson seemed to confirm during a recent signing) and Dalinar’s 1st wife was mysteriously and completely (until now) erased his memory. If so, why is she (presumably a Herald) trying to delete herself from the human mind/culture?
Also, for those who may argue that Shshshsh/Evi (who’s from Rira, sister country to the golden looking Iri people) and Shalash ( dark looking, with mixed heritage Alethi/shin/makabaki if woman in Baxil’s story) can’t be the same person because they don’t look alike, that wouldn’t matter considering Shallash is the light weaver Herald….she should be able to create illusions around herself way better than Shallan currently does (e.g. Veil). To me, Shallash seems a likely candidate for the woman from Baxil’s interlude since it was clearly pointed out that her race mix was very unusual/ mysterious, (possibly because she, as Herald of light weaving, is creating an illusion around herself), in addition to destroying/removing art images of herself as Herald.
Then where did Adolin and Renarin get their blond hair? I don’t think an illusion can pass different DNA than the original…
It is not just the blond hair, Brandon said Adolin/Renarin were paler skinned than your average Alethi because of their mother. Had she been dark skinned Baxil, I would have expected the opposite.
It is my understanding that a Bondsmith used his bonding to lock the parshmen in their dull form. The start of the desolation broke these bonds freeing the parshmen. Could that be the reason Dalinar now is getting his memories of Evi back. The start of the desolation broke the bond of his boon/curse. Do we know what Dalinar’s boon is? Is that what happened to Lift, the bond of her boon/curse has been broken? Or is it becoming a Radiant that breaks the boon/curse?